you welcome to cryptocurrency is the future of digital money show at portfolio of global comm my name is Michele Holliday today we are excited to be welcoming back a returning guest who has been on this show a number of times starting in 2017 the first time he was here Bitcoin was roaring it was the retail mania and all sorts of behaviors were taking place that sometimes lead to bubbles then the opposite occurred he came back to the show in 2018 and the crypto atmosphere was nasty and brutal but now in 2019 it has brought with it the institutional progress for the very first time backed Futures Libre and presidential mentions on Twitter definitely indicate that we have entered new territory in this industry our guest today is mr. tres Mayer tres is an entrepreneur an investor a journalist who ferociously defends freedom of speech he holds degrees in both accounting and law and he is the host of the extremely popular podcast Bitcoin knowledge podcast trace welcome back to the show how are you today oh great thanks so much for having me it's always fun to talk about our magic internet money oh yes yes and lots of stuff occurring oh my gosh this industry is exploding trace you have always held the position that Bitcoin is the best form of money thanks to decentralization among other benefits do you believe that bitcoins Network effect will keep growing now that Libre for example is competing with it and how does the entrance of 28 giants into the cryptocurrency space contribute to bitcoins future as we continue to see much more institutional buying yes so first Libre and Bitcoin they aren't even the same type of thing one is centralized can be censored your account could be shut down the others global decentralized censorship resistant the hardest money in the world it's strictly limited an amount the other one like they can just create as many of whatever's they want as they want to do so they're totally different totally different things in fact Libra could actually hold Bitcoin within it you know just like they're gonna hold oil or or or at least price exposure to oil or weed or other assets so you know they're not even the same type of thing and a Bitcoin you know where you're able to have run your own full node and hold your own private keys that's a big deal because it gives you a monetary sovereignty and it's the hardest money in the world look at the difficulty adjustment algorithm and so I think that the Bitcoin network effects are going to continue to take root there they're taking root there exponentially reinforcing each other and so you know it's it's a bright future all the way around to have Facebook the chairman of the Federal Reserve the new head Christine Lagarde of the ECB Treasury secretary munchin president Trump all of these people within a week like making Bitcoin a political question introducing it to become an election issue in 2020 I mean this is gonna be kind of wild to watch I mean Bitcoin is only ten years old and it's already this type of a monster in terms of the liquidity the scalability in the security it is unparalleled nothing's even close to it so you know it's not going away and it poses this ability for Millennials to transfer huge amounts of wealth that are currently stored in other assets to holders a Bitcoin so you know that's a that's another thing that should not be underestimated because the Millennials are stepping onto the political stage and they're claiming you know just a lot of influence both politically and now economically and so you know we're just in a time of change and it's it's exciting yeah Millennials are certainly going to be a force to be reckoned with I think a lot of people sort of discount that when you hear a lot of commentators especially in mainstream media even Fox talking about Oh know everything nothing to worry about everything's gonna stay status-quo these are just very few people represented and they are not going to have an impact I think they're greatly under estimating what's about to come when she said well there are a hundred and sixteen voting age Millennials versus something like 78 million baby boomers baby boomers are dying every day they're on the way out the Millennials are inheriting that wealth why keep it in a fraudulent stock market where there's just market we don't have markets anymore just manipulations Treasury secretary munchin mentioned this in his press in his press conference he talked about the president's working group on financial markets you know what they do they were formed after the the 1987 crash they're there to manipulate the markets to restore confidence so they can buy and manipulate any type of asset basically that's what he's talking about I mean it's really kind of crazy and you know the only way you can manipulate bitcoins price right now is up because it's only 200 billion market cap and there's not much there but bitcoins different from all of the other assets that you might try to manipulate because it's strictly limited an amount in the price the cost to run a Bitcoin full node to verify your own transactions holding your own private keys that cost is very low relative to like running a gold full node and you don't even get to run like shares of stock in app or whatever you don't get to run one of those full notes so like you know Millennials they I mean look at just the the difference in thinking baby boomers came of age with a booming economy a booming stock market all-time low housing prices very high interest rates there was never a greater time to accumulate capital than what the baby boomers grew into my father for example he graduated college he earned twenty five point seven ounces of gold per month at his first job out of college that's five hundred thousand dollars a year but because of the monetary system and fractional reserve banking and our the UCC with how they deal with ownership of stock certificates and other equities and rehypothecation and now we have all-time low interest rates we had the 2007 financial crisis we have all-time highs in student debt we have all-time high housing prices like the Millennials have gotten totally screwed compared to the baby boomers and so what is what is the one asset that's not manipulated by this president's working group on financial markets the plunge Protection Team is the name of it and it's Bitcoin yeah I plunge Protection Team like that right you want to acquire assets when they're cheap they're keeping prices artificially high which are pricing Millennials out of being able to acquire wealth so what are what what's the option for Millennials you know and you couple it with all the trust that's then lost in a fourth turning you know mullet cypherpunks don't trust verify don't Millennials they don't trust banks they don't trust corporations they don't trust governments or institutions they don't trust any of this crap why would they lie yeah I mean why would anyone I mean maybe baby boomers because they grew up being coddled with like all these economic tailwind but Millennials have had only economic and political and corporate headwinds and so they're looking for an option out of that system and that's where Bitcoin comes into play you know and this isn't just I mean it's not just magic internet money I mean this is triple entry bookkeeping first time practically implemented it's gonna be a massive it's it's a once in a species event you know and so as we're in this for turning like Millennials have a question to ask themselves are they gonna buy some Bitcoin just to have some in case it catches on like Satoshi recommended or are they gonna get left behind being stuck in an old system where they're being priced out with a plunge Protection Team that doesn't let the asset prices come down you know so they they're buying stuff expensively and then it's gonna lose value anyways because the price is artificially being propped up I mean Millennials got it they gotta ask themselves some serious questions and they gotta take personal responsibility because you know if there's one thing that the baby boomers have done it's just bailout everybody you know they bailed out they bailed out the banks they bailed out their kids letting them live on their couch and in their basement like Bitcoin you don't get bailed out anymore because how do you get the resources you can't just print them out of nothing right now no more fractional reserve banking like that Bitcoin is just gonna be brutal in allocating these gains and losses and it's going to be uncomfortable for a lot of people especially those people have like resorted to getting bailed out and so I think we're into time for a huge amount of political change economic change financial change but Bitcoin it's just I mean it's a kind of an unstoppable monster now in terms of all its network effects so it's very exciting time to be alive and I don't know what Donald Trump is thinks he's doing like attacking a bunch of money badgers you know there are honey badgers attacking their money like that's about the dumbest thing I can think of to do politically I mean maybe maybe he wants to generate discussion and then flip during the election year I don't know but like it's it's not a very wise thing to do politically you know because he says even in his tweet he's like you know it's the US dollar no no it's that's the Federal Reserve Note and that is an unconstitutional monetary instrument under article 1 section 2 in clause 1 and there's no power in article 1 section 8 to give the federal government power to make anything legal tender and under 60 you know executive order 6102 Franklin Roosevelt made holding gold illegal the legislature came along and and free legalized at nineteen seventy five but only after had been demonetized and then in 1991 and City versus Dover the US Supreme Court could have heard the issue of what is a dollar but they refused to hear the case so all three branches of government have shirked their constitutional duty when it comes to sound money and it's sound money that made America great you know it was the dollar that was 370 1.25 grains of fine silver and that's still on the books actually under 31 USC 50 101 through 50 118 along with the other unconstitutional money like Federal Reserve notes but like that this is the type of discussion that Trump is now open the can on like what is money and what is constitutional money and what's gonna make America great again right it's it's gonna be a return to sound money like America is in this in this choice because it's the collapse of a worldwide global monetary and an economic system that's happening and we either going to have repression or regeneration repression would be not being a fan of Bitcoin and being draconian on it right which is which is like what munchin and and Trump have kind of floated regeneration is going the route that the founding fathers went with having freedom of speech and sound money in cryptography has already been upheld as freedom of speech in the mid-90s so he's got an uphill battle if he thinks he's gonna make Bitcoin illegal because the supreme courts gonna say no and so you know we're in this we're in this just huge amount of change and he swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution in general Milley who's now second-in-command behind Trump he said that the armed services their oath to uphold the Constitution is not to uphold a particularly der but to uphold the Constitution right yeah and there's and there's a difference and so when President Trump does a press conference about having social media and freedom of speech and then the very same day attacks sound money that's based on freedom of speech with cryptography there's cognitive dissonance there so you know Trump either let somebody go stright that tweet or Trump is being very smart generating a bunch of discussion to flip on the issue but it sounds to me that it's very bad idea to alienate the Armed Services and to retard the us's national security ability when it comes to having and using the soundest money the greatest you know that's that's the greatest technological advancement that's difficulty adjustment algorithm that's in Bitcoin like that this is a big deal and when China and India were the last to adopt gold which was the previous hardest money they lost seventy-two percent of their net worth so monetary repression as opposed to monetary regeneration the this is a stark path that America can choose between and so when he you know attacks freedom of speech and money sound money by going after Bitcoin and in introducing this cognitive dissonance he's alienating these armed servicemembers who actually have been able to buy Bitcoin earlier than pretty much anyone else because there was a deal between coinbase and USAA like six seven years ago so they've had a lot of opportunity to acquire Bitcoin the armed services have but also we've got approximately eight to ten million unique AML kyc verified American Bitcoin users on various exchanges out of a hundred twenty four million votes so yeah that makes a great idea like let's go attack the sound money that these people are holding and do it in an unconstitutional way that sounds like a recipe to lose an election to me and so like I I mean maybe he's getting bad advice from different advisers maybe doesn't understand what bitcoin is maybe doesn't understand the demographic trends that are all going although from what I understand Bannon was like understood the for turning and like the book and thought we were in the midst of a for turning so you know that this is what one thing Trump is good at is generating discussion and controversy so maybe it's intentional to generate a bunch of discussion around sound money and you know because how else do we get rid of the Federal Reserve Note and so you know that this is it's gonna be very interesting to see how all this plays out and and everybody gets to play in the war by voting with their money you can either buy Bitcoin or not right like you can joy everybody gets to join in the revolution if we're gonna retake sound money and it goes one by one person by person and you get to determine like what you do and and then we have the happening that happens in June next year like six months before the election and you know in a possible massive bull market into the six figures so I mean all of this could just be like wow you know I mean what a time to be alive I mean the baby boomers thought they had a good eye getting to be involved in all the civil rights movements we got to be involved in restoring sound money like it's pretty cool yeah it really is and you bring up an interesting perspective because I've thought about that sometimes too chomp seems to play dumb sometimes in my opinion you know what I mean he seems to say things that he knows are wrong just to get people fired up but that tactic does it it sort of grows negativity you know it gets people against him it's like what are you doing and that's a very slippery slope once you start that if you played you know what I mean if you play dumb and take this side and then people are against you so that you just get the topic roaring people can actually genuinely believe it that's your perspective he's done that on a number of different things so yeah really interesting to watch him I mean that that Tweety sent out at 20,000 comments like my comment where I pointed out a Federal Reserve notes are unconstitutional and a dollar is based on silver and that sound money and bitcoin is sound money and may that's what made America great that response had something like 80,000 impressions and so his tweet generated tens of millions of impressions maybe hundreds of millions like globally so I mean he really lit a fire under the discussion of what what sound money is you know and there are a lot of bitcoiners out there yapping a lot about it freedom everybody and so and now now you know it's not like gold you know because the gold bugs have been talking about it for decades they've carried that torch and you know I said I run to gold calm as my sight before Bitcoin was invented you know so I'm a fan of I'm a fan of gold and silver I think that they're not barbarous commodities but they're essential checks and balances in the political machinery and they belong in the same classes constitutions and Bills of right you know it's kind of like freedom of speech and so but bitcoins the next iteration of this and so he's like is the leader of the free world and that's literally what Donald means is like ruler of the world hike I mean yeah that's what his name means I mean it's really kind of wild so as like the leader in chunk yeah I mean it just like trumps everything but but the problem with Bitcoin is like if he doesn't get on the Bitcoin train like he might get trumped by Bitcoin because you know the economy matters but sound money matters more especially when it's you've got returns you know I mean bitcoiners are sitting on massive massive returns you know like you want to stimulate the economy how about you take a bunch of money from quantitative easing recipients and give it to the average person who's buying Bitcoin you know then they have a bunch of discretionary money to spend and hey let's become a fan of Bitcoin and like and exempt it from capital gains tax right I would be like so I mean maybe like maybe he's generating the discussion maybe he has no idea like the can of worms he open but he is very savvy when it comes to tacking into different political wins and there's already been different legislation foot floated in the house and the Senate about exempting Bitcoin from capital gains in certain types of ways so you know make that a pillar of your of your of your reelection campaign you know you want to jumpstart the economy why don't you make why don't you make 20 to 30 Americans Multi multi millionaires through a wealth transfer via Bitcoin you know from all this 13 trillion dollars of negative yielding government debt like yeah then then you'll then you'll leave a real legacy you know cuz you're gonna transfer all that wealth to Americans and that that's that would only be good for national security purposes because you know we'd have the money I mean you want to encourage your citizenry to have the sound money instead of discourage and prevent them like Bolivia you know they made the Bolivia and Ecuador making Bitcoin illegal well guess what their people are just gonna be repressed financially disappointing yeah I mean they're not gonna be rich like you need you want a rich citizenry because rich citizenry they can spend lots of money in you can use that to fund the military and other stuff like you don't have a rich citizenry you like you got a problem you know so so it I mean these are all fun political issues and bitcoin is seems to be a mirror that everybody gets to see their own reflection in when it comes to and so there's a lot of cognitive dissonance and stuff like that associated with it but bitcoin is not going away and it's got massive Network effects so I what you gonna do exactly I want to turn back just for a moment to Libra because it's the huge topic right now and you went a little bit into this I'd really like you to explain to everybody the difference between Bitcoin and Libra and the fact that Libra is not actually a competitor of Bitcoin yeah I mean libras centralized coin issued by Facebook it can be censored they're going to be collecting a bunch of data on its usage and probably using that just to screw you over on how stuff gets priced or what what gets presented to you it has to act within the regulatory framework it's not a fundamental protocol at the base layer like Bitcoin is you know on the other side Bitcoin it's a global digital store value it's not correlated it has a symmetric return potential it's immutable so you can't change it Libre they want to change your balance they can just change your balance just like that you know they control that database bitcoins that got the hardest cap supply so it's inflation proof no confiscation through inflation can't be confiscated because you're holding the private keys yourself it's decentralized and it's censorship resistant and so Lieber and Bitcoin are just totally different animals that's not to say that Lieber won't be successful or that it won't even push forward you know adoption of digital currency and virtual currency and stuff like this but it it doesn't even play in the same realm as Bitcoin bitcoins going after that store of value as the first Network effect of speculation you know and then other layers on top of it like lightning Network and and and liquid and stuff like this those will be additional layers that increased bitcoins usability so that extensibility Libra on the other hand it wants to have to do with the price of other assets that goes into a basket so it's much more like an SDR a Special Drawing right than it is like Bitcoin and in annek and it's sensible like well what you gonna do like get mal coxed again like I mean it's just like why trust Facebook I mean they've already proven to be like pretty antithetical to your own interest so you know that's another another thing is like it requires so much trust in facebook and the other entities whereas bitcoin is trustless you can run your own full node you know you can hold your own private keys but you don't have to trust anybody you can use a freaking satellite to download the blockchain all right how cool is that like anywhere you know you like you can be using Bitcoin in a way that no one knows you're using it because you're not going through an ISP or whatever or the Great Firewall of China like Libre huh like they're gonna be stopped like right at the Great Firewall of China and gonna do whatever the Chinese government wants them to do or or the US government or like oh that's gonna be fun you know Facebook getting pulled on by both the US and the Chinese government like Google is now right like it's just like why do you want to trust that type of insanity it just is I got rather just trust math and computer science and thermodynamics I just wanted you yet you just make such great points in that the fact that it's owned by Facebook so people if people compare you know you know one of obviously one of the twenty eight one of the big ones compared Libra to Bitcoin it's just so diametrically opposite it's actually like it's it's the institutions of the world that have stolen the money and stolen the identity and soldier data and made a whole lot of money off of you now coming to the cryptocurrency space and competing with Bitcoin it's just sort of like alright I do I do think it's friggin awesome that Silicon Valley and Wall Street are locked in this mortal combat with each other you know like you know bitcoin meanwhile is like you know the new mammal that's running around you got all these nation-state dinosaurs and you have big tech and Wall Street and like bitcoins the mammal that's like just trying not to get stepped on right I think so now it's like a pretty darn big mammal like eighty billion dollars a day a global trade volume that that puts it around the Swedish Krona you know it puts it like a top ten currency in terms of the forex markets in terms of liquidity and and we got we got a swap execution facility DCO that's turning two into a DCM with ledger X so it's fully collateralized on the puts and call options I mean like bitcoins got serious infrastructure in all seven of these network effects and and guess what like ledger X's us its CFTC regulated right right so like like okay so you don't trust the dollar and you trust Bitcoin well if the dollar and Bitcoin are very freely convertible to each other in a way Bitcoin will add confidence to the dollar mm-hmm because you feel that you're safe you can get out of the and a Bitcoin if you need to so you'll feel safer in Bitcoin I mean would you really want to be a deutsche bank customer right now no really they got 40 they got 45 trillion dollars of counterparty risk with derivatives do each a bank does and they're having a billion dollars a day of withdrawals happening like when are they gates gonna go up what are you when are you gonna be trapped in Deutsche Bank right right just like mount just like mal GOx right like for real for real like Deutsche Bank Bank of America Wells Fargo like look at look at Wells Fargo's net interest income you know and what happens when the interest rates get lowered by pal what happens to the bank's net interest income whether it's Wells Fargo or Bank of America like for real you want to be a counterparty of these of these institutions or do you want to own something that can't be confiscated either directly or through inflation because that's how that's what's gonna happen I mean it's gonna be inflation you know they're just gonna modern monetary theory they're just gonna keep printing stuff out of the Federal Reserve and out of the ECB and out of the JCB it's called competitive devaluation that's how this like Trump and terrace and trade wars and currency wars and like all of it leads to massive amounts of inflation to play games right monetary games like bitcoins global like any I mean that we've got 200 plus exchanges that do over a billion dollars a month of volume in different in different markets and stuff crypto exchanges so I mean that this is a Multi multi trillion dollar game for real like and it's gonna I mean what you gonna do like you're gonna be stuck in the old system or you're gonna move a small percentage your net worth into into bitcoins or maybe even a large percentage I mean everybody's got to make their own decisions and economic calculations gonna be brutal in allocating the gains and losses like you calculate incorrectly you're gonna end up like Peter Schiff you calculate correctly you're gonna end up like me oh really like I agree with you yeah I mean Peter and I were like the the other the Kenneth and Daniel we were at a Palm Springs conference and Peter Shiff walked by and I known him so we were gonna talk about it bit quince $13 and he didn't want to do an interview on camera because I'd make him look stupid right like who you gonna listen to you're gonna you're gonna have Peter Schiff manage your money or you're gonna get some Bitcoin at 13 bucks it goes to 13,000 right or from 13,000 to like a hundred or two hundred fifty thousand I mean I was the first person to put out a multi million dollar price target on Bitcoin okay I want to go into that what's your target right now and what's your time frame well I think I think for the rest of the year we might have a correction and consolidation we've had a lot of run-up preston from the investor's podcast coined the term the mayor multiple based on my thoughts on the 200-day moving average so mayor multiple comm or May or multiple about info people put up sites about it you know mayor multiple was 0.54 in like January February March timeframe that you should have bought right like mayor multiples that low it shows that it's cheap you should have bought at $3,500 now mayor multiple it when it well when Bitcoin was like twelve thousand bucks a couple days ago mayor multiples up around 2.2 X hmm you know so you want to buy when it's really low and sell and it's it's relatively high and so we have to have this 200-day moving average catch up it's only like fifty nine hundred dollars and it's rising like forty dollars a day so you give it another 80 days to two or three two and a half three months that's going to be another thirty two hundred dollars now we're up to like you know nine thousand dollar 200-day moving average maybe it gets up to nine ten eleven thousand dollars on the 200 moving average and then we have another run to like three or four x the 200-day moving average over a six to eight month period you could be looking at six-figure Bitcoin for real like in the middle of the election next year like it could be a major political issue because tens of millions of people will have a lot of money at stake in their Bitcoin like they don't care what your blabbing about like we gotta save the climate and ride tontons right like Senator Mike Lee making fun of the green New Deal like they're not there they're not gonna care about that they're gonna they're gonna care about are you gonna take 20% of my 80 thousand bucks that I made on my Bitcoin like I made a hundred thousand dollar gain on my Bitcoin capital gain are you gonna take 20% of that capital gains tax are you gonna run on a platform of repealing capital gains tax or exempting Bitcoin from from it believing the six figures around November or 2020 and talk about regulations do you think it's right now we're sort of enjoying a little bit of a grace period yeah well well I mean between like you know 2020 and 2021 in 2022 I mean these are there's just so much converging we've got the DCM with ledger X we've got backed we've got all-time high trading volumes we've got more more AML kyc to accounts than ever I mean put it in perspective we have 35 million globally a MLK ycd unique accounts in Bitcoin in 2017 we only had something like 2 million right and the in the previous bubble before that we had less than a million so I mean the order of magnitudes in terms of number of people that are growing and how many times has Bitcoin been in the news for making all-time highs and how many people have missed it you know cuz they just didn't figure out how to do how to how to buy any or that you know they just didn't do the work I mean phobos real I mean it's for real like look at the internet bubble right like what you gonna do you're gonna sit by like when Bitcoin hits 20 20,000 a new all-time high what's gonna happen to the average person that's hearing about it like in the news hmm they didn't buy it when I hit 1300 they didn't buy it when I hit 20,000 and now it's at 20,000 now it's at 25,000 like what are they gonna do yeah I mean everybody loves to chase the rabbit yeah but you can buy infinitely divisible portions a Bitcoin you know so someone might be like you know what need to buy some just in case it becomes something like Satoshi set yeah most definitely and they need to watch the mayor multiple and sort of gauge where they can come in yeah but they're not gonna do that because your might yeah well bit Bitcoin ax is both a gift and good and a babbling good so with transactions as the price goes up you need you people demand more bitcoins you use it to pay transaction fees and also as the price goes up people want to buy more of it you know because that's just kind of human psychology so Bitcoin is both a gift and good Antebellum good whereas the bit as the price goes up its fundamental usage requires more more purchases of Bitcoin and the store of value use case in results in more purchases of Bitcoin and since it's strictly limited an amount being the hardest soundest money the world's ever known you can't just produce more of it like if this happened to the price of corn like everybody be farm in corn banks like if it happened to the price of gold every single potential gold mine would be out producing gold but you like you don't get to do that with Bitcoin and in with gold it would take years for that new supply to come online you know it's harder money then go then corn would be but Bitcoin you don't get to bring more supply online and so you know you get these massive booms and busts and and it just you know just really human psychology being what it is like it results in these massive bubbles and 35 million people at a seven billion like you know it's just I mean even a twenty thousand dollar Bitcoin even it like Bitcoin being on the radar and being talked about in the same week by Christine Lagarde and Trump and Powell and Treasury secretary munch in it's still a tiny tiny blueberry compared to an ocean of capital and so I mean like there's only really one way that price can go and that's up like over the long term yet in another happening you know so 2020 look let's say 20 for you no I mean it like lets anybody who's held Bitcoin for 210,000 blocks which is about four years has always had a positive return measured in USD so if you just buy Bitcoin with the intent to hold it for four years well at least bet based on the past ten years you're gonna be profitable oh yeah and now is the time to get in just by a little bit get yourself comfortable and get going for anyone that doesn't own it now for anyone that doesn't really understand and isn't clear on the havening I want you to go into this before we go this is my last question please explain to everyone so they really have a good understanding of what this means coming up in 2020 yes so based on the rules of the protocol every four years approximately its every two hundred ten thousand blocks the amount of new Bitcoin that get produced gets cut in half so it used to be 50 bitcoins every ten minutes then it got cut to twenty five then twelve and a half then it's gonna be six point two five then it's gonna be three point one two five you know so the the rate of emission keeps getting cut and when it happens next year approximately in May or June that rate of emission is going to go lower than the rate of emission of new gold and then four years later it's gonna get cut in half again and you know because bitcoin is strictly limited in amount we have transactional demand and speculative demand when it comes to like you know the the curves well the transactional demand people don't care what the prices of Bitcoin you know they only hold it for a few seconds at the most to transfer value of our communications Channel so they don't really care what the prices and then there's the speculative demand and that's like a dog on LSD chasing our rabbit I mean that that is just it's so crazy and and as I explained earlier bitcoins both a Giffen and a babbling good so as the price goes up that dog chases the rabbit harder well when we have us when we have a supply shock when the supply a Bitcoin when there's a shock there it takes a while to filter through the market because the prices are set at the edges with that transactional demand and people don't actually care what the prices it's irrelevant in terms of the price elasticity so it becomes in my in I would assert its impossible to price the happening in in advance you have to wait for it to happen and then you have to wait for it to filter overtime through this transactional demand component on the pricing and and we've seen this happen throughout bitcoins history like when Silk Road got shut down and it's Bitcoin got seized like it went Bitcoin dropped to 60 bucks and a couple months later it was $1200 why because people had to go buy reacquire a hundred and fifty million dollars were the Bitcoin for a transactional demand and they didn't care what the price was because they were just using it for a couple days you know when Mount you know different we have different supply shocks that have happened to Bitcoin and it's always resulted in this massive repricing of Bitcoin it's happened after every happening it's happened with things like when Silk Road had a bunch of Bitcoin seized so you know I don't think they can be priced in advance and that just adds to more of the excitement you know because they're a bunch of people out there think they can price it in advance and so they're all pricing it buying it and selling it this is the first network effect of speculation we got seven of them all taking root for a world reserve settlement currency with a multi-million dollar price in in current US dollar value so I mean it's just incredibly time incredibly exciting time and you get to bet with your money so if you want to keep betting on people like Trump and Powell and munchin and Lagarde and Draghi and Yellen and you know these other people who created the crisis you know if you if you want to keep betting on those people like go ahead but if you want to buy some some schmuck insurance like buy some Bitcoin it's insurance against these people be making really stupid decisions that cause a bunch of damage financially and in people's lives you know because we're talking about your pensions going poof like evaporating you know we're talking about your pensions we're talking about the value your bonds you know there's thirteen trillion dollars of negative yielding dead out there why hold that instead of holding gold or a Bitcoin you know if you're not earning any interest like why hold something that they can just create as many of it as they want out of thin air just hold gold instead and it's a good point because when you old Bitcoin and gold you're gonna hold your value the likelihood of it is it's gonna explode in value but you put it in the bank and they're literally going into negative interest rates throughout the world I mean it's actually gonna cost you money so it really logically just even if you don't know anything about Bitcoin or gold logically you're going to lose money no matter what in your savings account if and when they go negative well what I think it like that helps highlight the demand for money we don't usually talk about the demand for money we talk a lot about the supply they can just print it out of nothing but we're talking about the demand for money and why why are they that why is everybody demanding this these fiat currencies and negative interest rates right it's because that's the risk-free rate that all of these financial professionals are using when they're managing the portfolios but like last I checked a euro or $1 not risk-free one we don't know how many they're gonna be in a year let alone in 10 or 20 or 50 years we don't we don't even have a definition for it it's not guaranteed any particular amount of purchasing power you can't run your own full node it's confiscate a ball like what's the new risk for the asset yeah that's you know skateable which the Libra is that is to me very frightening when you see that's confiscate able by the very people that have proven they will confiscate anything yeah and there's there's confiscating through stuff like civil forfeiture they just take your stuff and make you prove that you got it legally I guess or whatever and then there's confiscation through inflation which is a form of taxation without representation or due process of law so bitcoin it can't just be confiscated like civil asset forfeiture and it can't be confiscated through inflation because it's strictly limited in amount and it's immutable so like what you gonna do you're gonna protect yourself or are you just gonna leave yourself in a very vulnerable naked position where your money can just be taken from you however they want to take it because everybody else does really literally it's just because that's what everybody is so yeah I mean if you want to be late if you want to be lazy like bitcoins gonna be ruthless when it comes to personal responsibility so if you want to be lazy and don't want to get technologically adept and figure out how to buy and store properly like and securely your Bitcoin and instead just have being some dollar-cost average mutual fund that they can confiscate their inflation good luck you know but everybody's got a choice now so like you got a choice right trace it is always amazing to have you on this show please tell everybody how they can follow your work yeah so there's Twitter add trace mayor and the Bitcoin knowledge podcast at u-w Bitcoin kN I interview a lot of the top people in the Bitcoin space and thanks so much for having me I always love to share the message of monetary sovereignty and personal responsibility and choice absolutely thank you so much for coming on the show today mister trace Mayer entrepreneur investor journalist and the host of the Bitcoin knowledge podcast for crypto currencies the future of digital money show I'm Michele holiday at portfolio of global comm

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