This week in Bitcoin- 9-13-2019- Wacky financial world, negative rates, French Libra, Coinbase, ETH


Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this weekend bitcoin today is
September the 13th 2019 strong and vietnamese daughter your wealth of
bitcoin having hype i’m confiscated all offended by selling emotion
alright best guest in the space and of course they’re here today vortex and g
have returned and this is the first time they’ve been on the show together
because i bring you unique combos like this okay we’re gonna jump right into
the the news of the day and it was news of yesterday the european central bank
on thursday cut its interest rates 10 basis points to a record low of negative
0.5% and will in november kick off a fresh
round of stimulus all right what’s this mean g for big coin is the writing on
the wall the rain should europeans be getting in the big coin
well i want to begin to bitcoin of course but you know negative interest
rates are really interesting because this is something that when you look on
the TV and you have these anchors talking about it or when you read some
of the mainstream newspapers they’re they’re kind of engaging in a process of
trying to mainstream negative interest rates or making it seem like this is
something that’s completely natural and expected but when you kind of read
between the lines of like the ECB’s actual statements and you know consider
like economic policy for all of history up until this point it’s obviously not
very mainstream and you’re seeing some kind of cracks where you’ve got like
these you know big-time kind of investors and show up on CNBC every week
and they’re like foaming at the mouth like kramer in 2008 explaining why this
is insane so it’s kind of fun to watch we’re not in a crisis or anything and
this isn’t the thing that’s gonna pop the bubble but it’s just kind of another
example of central bank policy resulting in kind of miss allocation and resources
and just to i spend some time trying to about like how I would explain it and if
I actually understand negative interest rates and I think the key thing that you
guys need to understand there’s definitely two two key points so the
first is like why didn’t have interest rates not make sense so generally if I’m
giving somebody a loan I’m doing it as a basket of loans and I’m charging a
positive interest rate let’s say something like five percent and the idea
is across a broad portfolio I’m getting compensated five percent for the risk
that the borrower defaults and in fact you know there’s if you’re charging
somebody one percent it’s almost not worth it for you to take the risk of a
default right so low interest rates or zero interest rates you kind of don’t
want to make the loan negative interest rates where you’re giving somebody more
money and you’re not getting any money back it’s just the most ridiculous thing
a rational actor would never let make them loan for a negative interest rate
and then then you go into what’s driving negative interest rates or negative
yields and it’s it’s like everything else it’s about the price and it’s about
supply and demand and so the way to think about the supply and demand
dynamics of these of these negative yielding debt in Europe is the supply
side is who’s issuing this debt well who issues really high quality debt Europe
there’s no european central bank issuing bonds there is Germany and they have a
budget surplus they’re not going to be issuing any new debt all the big like
high-quality corporate borrowers are ten years into a bull cycle they’re probably
over levered as is they’re not gonna be raising any new debt and all the
countries in the periphery are not really in a position to be raising any
new debt so the supply of of like high-quality debt is pretty fixed and
then you go to the demand side and what you realize is there are a ton of these
buyers who are who are buying on economically they’re not buying for
economic and rational reasons there’s two there’s like three major parties so
one is the pension funds so pension funds just like you and I have an asset
allocation of like 6040 stocks and bonds they have their own asset allocations
which includes high-quality corporate bonds and high-quality sovngarde bonds
and they haven’t adjusted for them like they need to invest according to what
their asset allocation says and if the bonds are yielding negative the bonds
are yielding negative so they’re on economically buying and then you have
the bank which like what you or I would call
saving or being conservative keeping cash into balance sheet
the ECB regards at European Central Bank regards as hoarding they want to
increase like bank loans and everything else so if a bank has too much cash in
the balance sheet they start charging in fees so the banks want to avoid those
excess reserve fees so they use that cash and they park it somewhere really
safe which is countries like Germany or high-quality corporate debt then the
third party’s of course the ECB which is now gonna be just purchasing bonds in
the open market and there they’re not paying attention to price so what’s
happening is interest rates which are kind of like a benchmark for the rest of
the economy and me and you used to like refinance your home as a it they all
they all kind of interact with each other and this fundamental piece of the
economy is now like no longer reliable signal of you know price no longer a
reliable signal of you know how much you should be charged no longer a reliable
signal of risk and so what’s happening is people like market participants
aren’t actually sure how to react they have models that are based off
correlation but none of their historical models have negative interest it’s just
it’s a wild and out of balance thing so that’s kind of my take on it vortex I
don’t know if you have any take that UK share yes so I mean you pretty much kind
of laid it out out there I think for everybody right there I mean just to
recap I mean the ECB is relaunching QE at twenty billion euros a month I mean
just only nine months after they ended their last run and it’s still of course
negative interest rates I think they’re gonna be a zero point for still but at
the same time look between brexit the trade wars you know between US and China
Europe is sort of feeling the pain now alright there’s I mean the whole world
is sort of feeling the pain but Europe is definitely definitely feeling a
squeeze here that you know this game will be ongoing until someone folds it’s
essentially right because people are essentially in order to buy these bonds
people either believe in the government or the believe in the central bank
that’s going to bail everybody out and and as as he said nobody knows right as
jeet said nobody knows where this is going to go we got the president united
states Sweeting – the central bank you know lower rates lower rates uh
this is this is thick making think making everybody think that it’s okay in
that we have no inflation you know this is this is
definitely part of a longer longer term goal of abandoned cash but but that
could be a different topic fundamentally here the system is broken as ji outlined
here this is like an entirely unprecedented situation this has never
happened in the history of global finance before and really nobody knows
what to expect all we do know is that fundamentally at this point the system
is is definitely broken there’s definitely things wrong with it that
can’t continue very much longer into the future and so somebody is going to
someone’s gonna have to call something’s gonna have to fold both of you has said
a key point it is totally unprecedented no one knows what it will bring so there
has to be a place of safety out there and that’s why I bring this topic up how
does Bitcoin fit into all of this gee yeah I think so the person who I’ve
started paying a lot of attention to in terms of understanding like how debt
cycles work and particularly how like countries deal with their debt is Ray
Dalio he’s got this great book called big debt crises and he just he’s he’s
just done so much work he’s like a he’s like a large hedge fund manager is one
of the largest hedge fund managers in the world and he’s he’s famous for being
very rational and results-oriented and you know in this book one of the things
that and he just kind of goes through case study after case study of how do
countries react in different situations one of the most striking parts of the
book is there are so many countries where the central bankers aren’t aware
of what is the game theoretic best move to make so they’re kind of they’re these
are the most educated people in that country they’re educated and in the best
schools and everything else and even they aren’t sure what the next move is
so historically you see them making the wrong move all the time when you bring
up that Trump tweet we should be developing our currency as well so like
central that’s it that’s like a tool that people try to use that if you
devalue your currency it makes your country more competitive if somebody’s
doing the cost-benefit analysis like where do I wanna you know to start my
factory up they want to hire the cheapest employees so they go to the
country that has devalued currency but it’s like a tool to like spur economic
growth that way but all of this is it’s taking place in the context of like a
pair I’m shift that’s happening where there
is this old system and it looks like there are some parts of this which are
kind of unsustainable and people are recognizing that it’s unsustainable so
over the last five years you’ve seen pension funds and these other people who
have like you know large endowments focusing you know increasing their
allocation to stuff like private equity so stuff like venture capital real
assets that’s all stuff that isn’t mark-to-market in the market every day
because they don’t want exposure to that they feel like that’s kind of like it’s
two up in the air and it’s not something that is like kind of like reliable and
they don’t want it caught up in bubbles so they’re focused on things like water
rights in California right that’s like an asset class that they’re thinking
about because they they want to focus on fundamentals so all of the smart money
is already making these moves to get down to like the real economy and I
think individual investors are actually making those moves too when you when you
look at what happened when they try to raise rates and the market kind of fell
out from under everybody and everyone went into a panic what’s happening there
is like what they teach you in school is the efficient market hypothesis where
everyone is like a super rational actor I think you got to take that with a
grain of salt because you can see like what happens is nobody wants to be the
person who’s like the last person in musical chairs right so nothing is
rational when you think you’re gonna lose your entire investment you sell at
any price and I think that’s what you saw happening when they try to raise
rates and the next time some event happens that same rush to the exits is
going to happen and the thing that’s kind of becoming increasingly clear is
that these central banks they’re kind of running out of arrows in their quiver
like how many more how many more times can they lower the interest rate at what
point do they lower it to like negative five percent and people just give up as
this doesn’t make any sense anymore they’re doing the QE now but how many
more tools they have they have like only three or four more tools once you get
past QE and increase the QE even further you can start helicoptering money into
people’s paychecks but after that the tools are fairly limited and it seems
like they don’t understand when to put press the brakes they don’t understand
when you got a crate a little bit of a buffer and I think you know one of the
most interesting things that I saw out of this was the amount of leaks that
came out of this meeting so it looks like apparently like half of the cabinet
the ECB was just an open revolt and we’ve never seen that kind of like you
know breaking of ranks before in the ECB so when they were you know bullying
Greece in 2011-2012 they were like unbreakable right and now what you’re
seeing is people are kind of haven’t you know they’re feeling comfortable enough
to voice different opinions they don’t feel that current status quo is
sustainable all right I want to go back to one thing that you said earlier and
that the three major players and all of this was there the three divisions what
was the first one again pension funds and endowments okay day and you said
they their allocations are just locked in there they have to get 45% bonds or
something like that right yeah and look so that one of the things is I don’t
have I don’t have a breakdown of like who was buying what debt but based off
of the reading that I’ve done I understand it’s pension funds and if
their pension if they’re like pension funds in the United States and
everywhere else they have an asset allocation and they’re not going to
shift from audacity okay what why aren’t when are they gonna shift though there’s
gonna have to be a point when they wake up and shift in the big pool that that’s
what I’m saying that’s what I’m looking at here yeah yeah yeah so look I think
the so the way that so first of all there’s two things so first of all these
people who are making decisions at pensions and endowments are like the the
most conservative people you can imagine so to get hired for that job and to kind
of keep your job and to you know have a career down the line you don’t
necessarily want to be the first person like you know rushing open the gates to
try to jump into the risky asset classes so this is a naturally very conservative
group however we’ve already seen the first signs of the kind of rush for big
rush to get coin so David Swensen who is the kind of thought leader in the space
he’s the person who made Gail’s endowment from like really below average
to like literally the the kind of endowment that you know sovereign
nations and sovereign wealth funds look to him for advice he’s invested in at
least one of a 16 ZZZ crypto funds and I think at least one other crypto hedge
fund so through that he’s starting to closer to Bitcoin and I think some of
these other pension funds are now starting to dip their toes either
through existing like a 16z for example andreessen horowitz is like the premier
venture capital firm so the the top tier pensions that are in a 16 z now and have
you know got an allocation in their crypto fund are the top tier endowments
so if they get a good return out of that fund and they start seeing those results
early on they’re gonna look for other players and then other pension funds who
aren’t able to allocate to end recent are gonna be looking around for other
top tier funds that they can invest in I think it’s gonna come in through the
funds first and then it’s gonna come into direct allocations to Bitcoin right
now I think in order to increase adoption a lot of these hedge funds are
framing things in terms of traditional investments where everything is already
like vetted and legitimate and passed the SEC in this case you know these
investments are pretty you know they’re pretty untested so like outside of
Bitcoin and one or two others that you could say have been you know thoroughly
vetted for security and everything else there’s very few these investments that
are that you would feel comfortable recommending to an endowment and again
the people that are very conservative so they’re not going to the first person to
make to make a jump but I think as soon as the you know soon as point-based IPOs
and you see some of those returns showing up in existing pension funds
there’s just going to be a rush towards getting more getting more exposure to
crypto very interesting coinbase name-drop there we’ll get to them and
second town that like button people all right vortex let’s go back to you real
quick and any more thoughts on how this all
ties into to Bitcoin you mentioned in Trump specifically a negative interest
rates that we might end up with here yeah it’s pretty crazy because I mean
even jeet said like the most educated people you know have no idea what’s
going on right now they they have no idea what to expect and no idea actually
what he’s even going on I mean if you look at some of the some of the biggest
economists some of the biggest people in finance they really just don’t have any
idea what’s going on and what what to expect so I think that’s really
important to understand and especially you know if their understanding
bitcoin is going to be limited as well there is Simon first so for example
Simon Dixon is one of probably one of one of the people I respect most in
traditional finance and you know he’s straight up tells you in his video is
that these people that simply don’t know what’s actually going on even if the
people at the ECB the people in these meetings sometimes don’t understand
what’s going on so just important to understand that look um the the the big
people the big guys the the governments of central banks they do not have it all
figured out right now if we are in unprecedented times and nobody really
knows what’s gonna happen in this this ongoing global paradigm shift that we’re
experiencing right now so I think um but I do think people are some people are
beginning to recognize like she also said some people are really beginning to
recognize some of the parts of the current financial system are
unsustainable especially like you know like GTA the when when do people get
actually give up is it three percent is it four percent is at five percent
I don’t know but with each percent more and more people start to see the cracks
and I think that’s really important because eventually the jig will be up
and you know we have so many uh like like GT said also there’s just not a
whole lot of things for institutional investors to really sink their teeth
into right now I mean they’re because people are scared and we have people
like van X solid X right there they’re going to do pilots a little bit of a
Bitcoin offering called the the BtoB TF right which is not an ETF for directly
for retail investors but at B TF which is more for the institutional investor
it’s called the broker traded fund and I think they’re doing that right just to
prove that the need T of product is viable that they can handle this stuff
right that this is actually possible that people want this if there is the
man so we see steps like this moving forward little steps like this and of
course pomp Anthony pompano has a fund I believe maybe G you know the name of it
that recently had some pension funds invest in it as well you get more yep so
these little steps these little steps with that we see them being made a
little bit by a little bit and with each one more people understand and more
people are recognizing Bitcoin aim as a brand as all sorts of things and really
most importantly we’re starting to see almost most importantly we’re starting
to see Bitcoin being talked about as a safe haven right on CNBC and on by all
these huge economists when it’s only ten years into the game when Bitcoin is only
ten years old we’re already talking about it as a possible safe haven so I
think people really are starting to get a little bit where they need to get it
and we just to wait and see what happens all right
let’s look what now we’re talking about Europe let’s uh move on to something
else is going on in Europe and I’ll start with vortex on this France will
halt the development of Facebook’s plan libre cryptocurrency in Europe because
it threatens the monetary sovereignty of governments well that’s what France says
do you think France will be able to do that your thoughts on that vortex yeah
so I think this just echoes back this is beautiful for me I mean everything about
Libre has been just beautiful for me because it’s just one thing after
another proving why Bitcoin why we need BIC win why big winnings is why Bitcoin
still exists one thing after another and of course one of these things is
permissionless innovation right so there there is nobody that can technically
stop Bitcoin there isn’t at least as we understand it today there’s nobody that
can go out there and just say get Bitcoin on the phone and be like look
guys look we don’t like what you’re doing we’re gonna have to sorry we’re
gonna have to kick you out of our country there’s no ability for a country
to do that but there isn’t ability to stop Libre right there is an ability to
say no you know what we’re not gonna not gonna have Libre here they can do that
very easily but that’s the whole thing that the but really BIC one brings to
the table here is this permissionless innovation is this open borderless
decentralized permissionless innovation type of network here that anybody can
participate in so for me this is just highlighting more and more of why
bitcoin is important and maybe even why all coins aren’t so important because
guys look if Libra can be kicked out of a country what do you think they can do
to some Oakland you know like a theorem or some some other al-quwain like pesos
or whatever you insert a name that you want to pick right doesn’t matter they
can absolutely absolutely stop that because these because most of these all
coins are are in fact centralized Bitcoin being the only actual you
centralized public blockchain at scale these other coins can absolutely be
thwarted and say and one day France can wake up and be like you know what we’re
not gonna we’re not a big fan of Eos and we’re not gonna let that where I can let
our businesses participate in that in that particular blockchain and so this
is what’s possible with with these types of centralized solutions and I think
it’s very very just again highlighting the importance of Bitcoin and why
Bitcoin can’t be stopped do you think there the Facebook
that this is just a threat to Facebook maybe they want a little compensation or
a lot some compromise from Facebook that they’ll be able they’ll be able to get
through you know I think I personally it’s all a game right yes all the game
right Adam I mean this is all a game I mean you know we saw what happened to
Julian Assange right but when Ecuador gave up June Assange in exchange for a
four billion dollar stimulus right from the central bank so it’s all a game we
see what’s what’s going on and it’s just a matter of you know who’s gonna still
want to play their game and who’s gonna want to finally just give up and say you
know what we’re gonna go play this other game over here called Bitcoin work where
it’s a lot easier for the average person to get into where we can have
predictable monetary policy I think I think it highlights that all right your
thoughts on France and Facebook yeah I think the they were they were quoting
the French finance minister and the thing that really stuck out to me was I
mean he just straight-up said we’re not gonna see our monetary national
sovereignty to like one entity that just happens to have two billion users and
it’s kind of interesting because the way that he frames it is that they’re it’s
like it’s like confrontational so I think that Libre may have made a mistake
and you know since they are centralized there the benefit of that should be that
they’re hiring their ton of like marketing and regulatory people and then
visiting every single major country and then speaking with those people ahead of
time making them aware before any public announcements instead you hear well you
know X Y Z billion-dollar US American tech company Facebook which is
responsible for data privacy issues which Europeans are very sensitive about
its launching a currency and its gonna take over every other currency so you
can imagine the French finance ministers just sitting there like not on my watch
so it’s it’s kind of a you know in addition to obviously having like a ton
of their their citizens like switching to Libre and a crisis that’s like a risk
for France obviously and for all the other EU countries but I think it’s more
like you know when somebody is trying to establish a government like there are
certain sources of authority minting your own coin is literally like let the
most old-school way you can imagine to to establish
you’re like a sovereign entity and you’re a sovereign country so it’s like
they’re they’re going to France and taking away or competing with them on
their own soil so I can imagine the French finance minister is probably a
little bit nationalistic and just let light into him that way yeah yeah it’s
it’s it’s a brave new world we’re entering where corporations will be able
to come compete on the turf of these countries with what they used to have a
monopoly on so I close you oh yes what’s crazy Adam is that like their
Facebook was supposed to thwart this whole problem right by having a basket
of currencies so everybody can play everybody’s a part of Facebook and and
of course they had the absolute opposite effect because because even if they were
to go to just with the US dollar that was backing the thing it would still not
get any more support so they tried to get a basket of currencies to get more
support and that still didn’t help because they’re people I think are wise
to the fact that what you said a sovereign entity is recognizable most by
their currency right yeah they just added a Singapore a dollar to their
basket I think I read who knows what gimmick they’ll come up with next or if
they’ll be able to bribe France we we shall see I still think that if it does
get off the ground I think it would be good for Bitcoin because it’ll get
people in the crypto currency and then some of them will find out what the real
thing is now sorry I was just gonna say here’s the other here’s the other take
on this Facebook is trying to be like the next generation of Ted right yes
it’s mothers for large MOTC traders you know going in between exchanges and then
between each other and going back and forth between countries Libre is
basically saying we want to do together but we want to do it in a smaller scale
and you know across even more people so the government can’t track or the
government’s can’t track it so that just feels pretty controversial and like you
know you’d like he pointed out it’s not permissionless you know if you’re
playing the game where you have to if you’re if you’re playing the game of
dealing with governments then you should do it the right way
otherwise you’re they’re kind of making promises to their customers that by not
to get to keep all right let’s let’s move on to another controversy
your entity coinbase coinbase may soon get into the business of initial
exchange offerings vortex yeah it’s it’s kind of crazy I mean so look everybody’s
aware at this point of the failure of AI cos that was theorems main use case at
the time they keep changing their use case of course when it’s supposed to be
but and for 2017 it was the ICO machine and I think everybody’s aware at this
point now that that icos was was a bubble it was absolutely a bubble there
was a whole lot of projects that did a whole lot of harm to the space you know
we’re over 99% of them failed and over 99% of them were scams and so we have we
have we have actual evidence to know that that a particular idea of
investment it’s not such a great idea but then somebody was like you know what
finance was like you know we’re gonna sort of we’re gonna we’re gonna do i
SEOs again but this time it’ll be through us and it’ll be all fine
everybody will be ok everybody can participate and it’ll be fine what
happened there of course still more scamming scamming skimming projects I
mean the scam used of all projects you can think of has gone has now gone
through finance in an IEE oh and it has we see the same result almost all of
them are scams almost all of them don’t do anything very very very few are
actual honest technology trying to contribute to the space so most of it is
just pumped and dumped if you look back at the stats of the ICO as you can see
that all of them are underwater and almost all of them have spent like 80%
of their balance sheet like it’s it’s pretty crazy she’s trying to stay afloat
try to stay survive so I don’t expect these IPOs to be a whole lot different I
think everybody at some point every exchange is gonna launch an i/o it’s
just again more profit for them until regulations catch up once again and stop
them from doing that so it takes a couple years people are gonna create you
know people gonna find new opportunities that’s not gonna stop especially now in
this permissionless kind of space that is crypto you really can just sort of
start doing all sorts of things I mean if you look at what by dan state they
just launched a token and they moved to this country and then move to this
country and you know then they launched iOS and and now they’re launching an
exchange in the US and just the end of the end of September so it’s you can in
this type of world people are going to absolutely uh try to move fast and break
things and that’s of course a big difference between sort of the
Bitcoin ecosystem and the rest of the ecosystem but the rest the ecosystem
absolutely all day long will try to move face move fast and break things try to
find that opportunity and until regulation catches up so this is just I
think another example of that and I would say be again very wary guys of
these ayios they’re really no different than the icos
and we see diminishing returns on them already the ayios are already starting
to have diminishing returns so the I the i’il bubble might be even drying up
faster than the ICO what’s this say about coinbase that they want to
diversify into this thing of all things I think I think it split the company and
half really at this point but they’re they’ve recently in the last year or two
made this huge company why decision to make this focus make all coins a huge
focus they really wanted to diversify into all these different all coin types
of solutions and things for customers and what we’ve seen again is you know
there is no liquidity on these tokens and on these coins coin based is
supporting tokens that literally have 2000 dollars of trading volume in 24
hours just complete nonsense just just unethical to the point if I’m not to the
point of it being unethical that there’s so more liquidity on these tokens and so
the coin base I think it’s gonna continue to down this particular road
for at least another six months to a year as that is what they’ve really been
going headstrong in for the past couple years but you know although I think of
the smart people of coin bases left long ago long before this this new this new
business strategy of diversification into all coins we’ve seen what happens
to the all coins you know they definitely over time continue to lose
value when it comes to Bitcoin when it comes when its measured in Bitcoin so a
really coin base is going to still go down this down down this road they’re
going to lose money they’re going to lose their customers money just like
they have been for the past couple years with their business decisions and this
is gonna be no different I mean I think it’s relevant that coin base is the
punching bag of the space they’ve made just incorrect step wrong step after
wrong except after wrong step and this is just yet another I think step in the
wrong direction for coinbase gee haha with all this being said how can they
pull off an IPO I do what do you think about them going in this direction it’s
gonna be interesting to see if they can pull off an IPO in the all coin bare
market like that would be funny but I don’t think they’re gonna be that stupid
I think they’re going to wait for Bitcoin you know to be at least
50 KS jumpstart another alkaline market and they’ll probably launch around them
but again guys see these alkaline markets if you look over time they just
they just continuously crash back down to this overall medium and that lying
guys is gonna be broken one day you know one day when when the world figures
finally figures out that most of the stuff isn’t viable for consumer grade
for institutional great for any grade of consumer or of customer I think that the
the world is going to wake up it’s gonna take some time but it’s but eventually
the world’s going to wake up that most of these all coins just aren’t worth
billions and billions of dollars especially when they have less than tens
of thousands of dollars in 24-hour trading so I you know that’s the key
point that I think a lot of people miss like you know when you think about like
fundamental value and what is actually driving you know it’s easy to talk and
say that you know hey this you you guys have probably seen those charts where it
compares the features and the different coins but the way to think about like
something that can compete with with currencies and and be a store value is
not like simply copying and pasting the code it’s one you got to either write
something that’s original like Satoshi Nakamoto did and then he’s able to
capture the book of attention and the people that are writing on Bitcoin
aren’t necessarily like writing code for economic reasons some of these people
are like they’re you know their motive they’re motivated they’re intrinsically
motivated by like the fun of doing it and the joy that they get from working
on like the best system like a lot like a lot of other open-source software like
their maintained you know they’ll be billions of users or hundreds of
millions of users and you know it turns out there’s like two guys and a cat that
are maintaining the whole system but those guys are obsessed with that system
and they’re never gonna quit so those you know hundreds of millions of users
could be there or they could not be there the developers will still be there
and I think around Bitcoin you know there’s cool as this group of developers
this group of holders this group of people who may be putting a content like
I can imagine vortex putting out content no matter what I don’t think he’s gonna
just stop it’s the Bitcoin price goes to 1,000 it’s it’s gonna be game on even
more I’ll join I said I’m done I’m out so so
that’s the type of thing when you get people doing stuff for uh neck anomic
reason and from a place that doesn’t come from
an expected value calculation but it comes from like you know what this is
the right thing to do or this is just what I’m interested in doing like that’s
when you get a beautiful system like that’s how you get something like
Wikipedia going when you just get people who are all kind of coordinating
together and so that’s why I love everything that you guys are saying
about alt coins because as much as like I like some of the people who are doing
these out coins and I like the ideas and some of the projects the problem is that
they’re not very serious about it because they’re always launching to make
you know you can just see they always embed themselves a pre mine or some kind
of feature so that they get paid and it like what they’re doing is taking their
chips off the table and that’s just a signal for you as an investor in the
crypto space that they may not be as serious isn’t um sorry I was gonna jump
into coinbase yeah please please yes yeah the only other thing I would say
about coin basis I think a couple of shows ago I brought up coin base versus
Finance and how this was going to be like the you know Tyson versus oddly
type of situation Finance has rolled up liquidity outside of the United States
they have every single ounce coin and they have all these like cool little
features that are adding all the time and coin base has the US market as a
reminder the US market is worth far more like your college student in the United
States with their lunch money has more money sometimes then somebody who could
be like you know like a post college employee in other countries so each
customer in the United States is worth so much more and customers in the other
areas but because finance has a tight feedback loop with all their customers
and their their customers are constantly giving them feedback and they’re they’re
figuring out problems for their customers they have all these cool
features and stuff that people love so the EOS like I agree with you I have not
invested in any of these ayios but the their launch pad which is like the
they’re trying to make like a Y Combinator for crypto they’re attracting
all the the smart teams in Asia to come and work for them and then they’re
attracting all the attention from people who are interested in investing and and
so they’re just kind of doing the right thing so I don’t agree with like you
know I wouldn’t invest but they’re they’re doing what is correct to do from
the business perspective to gain attention and
like win the game and the game is ultimately winning the US market it’s
the most valuable so you know now they’ve cut out all the US users they’re
launching new extremes in the US and so you can imagine the people in point base
for thinking about like what is their differentiator historically it’s been
their the only reliable exchange the United States well guess what for the
last two years anybody who’s wanted to invest in in
Alta Plains they’ve generally used finance they’re familiar with it and
they kind of trust it maybe that’s the point of a coin base
but in general a lot of folks trust finance and in in cz they know that like
he just kind of has like a very positive customer service mindset where they’re
like refunding money all the time if they make mistakes and all that stuff so
now coinbase is probably trying to fill the gaps of
where they can’t compete with finance effectively one that’s alt coins so you
know they added – recently I doubt that they would have added – if finance was
mentoring the United States and long with some of the other loans that
they’ve added and then it looks like they’re also thinking about getting into
security token offerings and ayios and they’ve bought some of these broker
dealers the people who have broker dealer licenses which allows them to
sell securities they’re just kind of positioning themselves so that six
months from now they’re not gonna be caught off guard when Finance starts
doing more iOS but they do their first ie on the United States for example so I
think that they need to fill in the gaps so that when I’m making a choice between
where do i you know park my money and all my trading like where do i want to
trade do i want to trade in plain base where i can trade like for else coins 5l
coins or do i want to go to finance where i have like the entire gamut about
boys oh yeah that’s continue sorry yeah okay well so like cuz we don’t we don’t
think in those terms right I mean we’re pretty conservative guys investing in
Bitcoin and we know that we’re gonna win long-term but day to day the traders I
think are what makes a lot of the profit for these guys for the exchanges so
their kid into the traders and I think that you know winning over the traders
and getting the correct mindset is what’s gonna win and there’s there’s
some interesting moves that crankin has made as well in this space to try to
compete they’ve got I think it’s called a coin switch crypto watch it’s called
so there’s a it’s kind of like a dashboard
or an overlay or a Bloomberg terminal for trading ayios there’s this here’s
the service called coin Fox that’s K oh I n fo x and this is launched by a
couple of dudes sitting in India they want to trade they want to trade out
coins so they started setting up they started giving tools to normal people so
they could you know get into the get into the ayios at the right price in
finance and so people love that and so they started teaming up with by Nance
and you know they launched an events together and I think that crankin seeing
that is like how do we get involved in that and they’ve launched a competing
product now it looks like crypto watch and also Finance launched futures now
creating is launching futures like they’re all trying to like fill in the
gap of what they’re missing somehow so that’s the kind of big theme that I see
oh wow you impulsive traders you’re fueling a war between these these
organizations strong hand yunnan traders don’t be tempted by all these fancy k
words or whatever that way it starts with a k’ spelled in such a trend it’s
both sq you AR but let’s we’re on the topic of all coins aetherium spin on
both you guys tweet about aetherium sometimes vortex what’s the latest
what’s the latest with aetherium they’re still I have no idea all I know
is that they’re still working on the theorem 2.0 they’re supposed to launch
that version in January but I think that just recently got delayed as well back
to I don’t even think they have a date on that actually at this point but I am
the wrong guy to ask about a theorem I can tell you that it’s been pretty fun
watching Eric Wall try to sink a guess node that’s been pretty hilarious
I was a Cather perry forget what he’s running now no no it’s a parody he was a
Eric Wallace trying to sing a parody note I took him 25 days and several
crashes and several freezes before he actually got it but he actually got it
synced as of today the journey is now over he actually got it synced 25 days
it was one heck of a journey but again guys
this is this is where aetherium is right now in 2019 what do you what how long is
it gonna take to sink anode and in just five years from now maybe even just
three years from now right when they have like what two minute blocks or
something ridiculous it’s absolutely insanity over there so
of course they’re trying to restart this thing from scratch and the theorem 2.0
and of course we have the leader of a theorem of italic even saying things
like you know if they’re in 1.0 now that there was never any flipping there was
never any plan to flip in Bitcoin there was never any plan to be a world
computer no just a scrappy little project by a made by a couple of
different developers and it’s like guys they certainly didn’t market it like
that for the past few years so that was was pretty interesting to have a quote
like that from vitalic but you know it’s it’s just these alkaloids they just fuel
the speculation this is why all these exchanges exist this is why all these I
yellow some I CEOs exist the traders and the speculation and you know and then
that’s fine that’s always going to be a part of markets and especially a part of
Bitcoin because that is you know what drove Bitcoin a lot and still drives
Bitcoin in these days even though we have actually actual use case scenarios
we have Bitcoin ATMs everywhere we have Lightning Network you know we have
people actually using this stuff for for buying things with BTC paste server and
things like that so and of course we have the financialization of Bitcoin
with project with products on Wall Street I like these options and futures
and things that backed is launching so you know it’s it’s you really have to
compare the Qin and theorem every once in a while just to sort of keep your
sanity too because it because people pump a theorem still to this day like
crazy there are there are tweet there are people on twitter out there that are
tweeting almost every day the Biff theorem is money that a theorem is
digital gold there at this point I think if theorem is trying to take every
single one of bitcoins memes I think the latest one is stacking the gwe I is like
stacking SATs what if they’re one of the stable coins right it’s like stacking
says sure guys stacking stable coins definitely like stacking sets all day
long absolutely so you know it not to be honest again I’m not going to you know
accomplish exactly what’s going on over there I because again Bitcoin just takes
so much of my time there’s so many things happening in Bitcoin that it’s
really hard for me to pay attention to other chains but definitely this stuff
comes across my my Twitter sphere and and my timeline and so I definitely
tweet some of these things like somebody actually attempting to try
to sink an aetherium node that adventure was very very very interesting and I
encourage everybody to check out that tweet and find out what it’s like
actually like to work on a theorem when you’re trying to work on a theorem
without any other central players in there without any other third parties
without any other any other person in your way and it’s really difficult at
this point it’s it’s on there impossible and I think in the next couple years
it’s going to be really really impossible which is why of course
they’re starting this aetherium 2.0 type of thing but guys if you if if I tweeted
this out I’m like have any one of your engineers and one of your companies if
anybody is part of a company have any one of your engineers take a look at any
one of these roadmaps and any one of these design documents if they’re going
to fall over laughing it’s it’s absolute absurdity some of the things that
they’re trying to do and I’m all for experimentation and that’s great there’s
gonna be all sorts of interesting things that comes out of a theorem at some
point but yeah it really for the most part I can’t pay a whole lot attention
to it alright new you have something to say about it as a year again follow
these both these dudes G and vortex they are linked to below G your your thoughts
on a theorem do you have a lot of developers they do have conferences
there’s a big one going on and Tel Aviv soon people are building stuff on it
what’s going on yeah I think so so let me comment first on something of or text
n which is incredibly important so you know there is a significant amount of
sneering and kind of looking down on statements like sync your own full note
or you know any time somebody brings that up there’s always somebody who’s
like a smart aleck you know they’re probably like a journalist or they have
a blue checkmark and they’ll explain why well what are you gonna do you know if
the government seizes your good clinch will note the world never like nothing
is ever that extreme all that matters is that I can buy a raspberry pie for $35
and I can see my full node very quickly and easily and there’s like it’s not
very complicated like I’ve done it in a couple times now and explain to people
how to do it it’s not like it is it is you know it’s not something that my
grandma could do but it is something that any reasonable a college educated
or high school educated person can sync up and what that does is it allows
whoever has that node to validate the state of the blockchain
so if so if we have 1 million people who are validating and in Cabal data
transactions that are coming into them that’s 1 million people who agree on the
state of what’s going on whereas for youth from if you have only
like 6 companies that can run a node and I’m exaggerating I know there’s probably
more nodes and 6 but it reduced hardly 12 yeah it reduces the validator set so
it means that there’s less people who are doing the validating so if you have
certain all the other million users of each room would be depending on those
six parties and that’s a trusted third party which nick szabo writes about and
its exact situation that Yost was in in China you know when you have 12 people
in a room it’s very it’s very easy for them to start creating a cartel and
discriminating against the normal users because they have all the power to
validate and the obstacles are too high for normal people to set up their own
nodes so that is like a superpower that Bitcoin has is that they just literally
your spam filter and Bitcoin needs to be like through the roof because you don’t
want to be the person who’s adding on junk and you don’t want to like fall
prey to whatever junk science people are throwing out there like Bitcoin is fine
as it is and anybody who’s trying to you know add on different features they’re
probably a scam and you should be extremely suspect so that was one thing
the second thing was the memes so interims the ethernet people have really
ramped up their meme game and I kind of admire it because you know bitch teen
it’s be I don’t have space fella that he has this Michael gold steam is his name
Michael Goldstein okay there you go he’s one of the guys from the Nakamoto
Institute right so they had a talk in in in a in a conference you sniff you just
type in michael goldstein meme or something about how debate should happen
and it’s kind of funny because stuff that he talks about that you through
people have actually started to adopt and they’re much they have much stronger
kind of memes and arguments and they’re they’re kind of playing around now so
instead of being like triggered by anytime somebody brings up Ethan UM’s
like technical defects they kind of turn it into a positive just like Bitcoin
people do when you explain like why is there no adoption or something right
it’s like well you just gotta stay super positive until the adoption happens and
so they’re trying to kind of play the same game so they’re essentially like
copying and pasting a lot of the means that Bitcoin people have used in to
and so it’s it’s getting harder to to kind of pierce through that and then
that being said in terms of what’s happening in each room there is like a
lot of activity the base layer is it’s still not clear how 2.0 is gonna happen
so it’s extremely unstable but I think a lot of what’s happening is the defy the
decentralize finance people are launching different things and you know
we’ll see what we’ll see where it goes like a lot of it seems like kind of
interesting but the problem is that it’s it’s like there’s too many layers of
complexity and there’s too many layers of things that were built in a week and
it’s not clear that they’re gonna last kind of tests of time so there’s a lot
of experimentation going on hopefully something successful happens with it you
know I root for die maker you know maker doubt they’re stable coin die it seems
like they have the potential to like go to a place that it doesn’t have crypto
adoption and don’t have other options try it but they haven’t succeeded yet so
I wouldn’t recommend buying anything other than Bitcoin but it’s kind of fun
to watch people do these experiments and you know I think you know people are
trying the developers are trying the people who are like in the trenches so
to speak are definitely trying but if you built on an unstable base layer like
it’s not gonna amount to much so hopefully we’ll just be prepared when
they want to start building on Bitcoin vortex 70% Bitcoin dominance you you
mentioned earlier that eventually on the all coins are just gonna well pop
downward do you see the dominance increasing soon so I don’t like I really
hate this freaking metric you know I really really do because obviously what
we’re trying to say here is that bitcoin is should be measured against all of
these other chains whether they’re tokens whether they’re not told it
whether they’re stable coins whether they use proof of work or not whether
they’re proof of stake and of course that to me is just kind of kind of
insanity but of course the metric it still does get used because we need some
kind of measurement it’s a measure Bitcoin against everything else and so
this is what what is used and it has reached 70% dominance at this point
again many people have have predicted this that was going to happen
eventually over time it’s just it’s really a my opinion just a matter of
time so we remember everything sort of history
rhymes that all the stuff sort of plays out like it like over and over again so
you know we’re having some of these I guess I guess get on blockchain Wars at
this point really big when one long time ago but people are still trying to try
to take over Bitcoin or eBay sorry uh take Bitcoin spot right and so they’re
still trying to still trying to come up with these different ideas come up with
these different things and see if they can take over Bitcoin but really what
we’ve seen time and time again is that their value continues to be lost against
Bitcoin and so really at this point the alts are never going to go away
completely of course I mean this is you can’t just tell people to stop
programming that’s that’s not gonna that’s not going to happen and of course
sometimes I catch flack for for not for telling people that I’m not a
quote/unquote Bitcoin maximalist because you know I do believe in experimentation
I do believe that not every single person in the planet is a scammer
I just most and so that there are as there are some people out there that do
want to do some good and do want to do some experimentation simply don’t
understand that like the intricacies of Bitcoin and the theorem and which one
they should work on because as this is new stuff this is not this is not easy
this is this is new this has only been around for a few years and of course the
world is really only understood about it’s really only heard about Bitcoin
since 2013 really that’s when the world sort of found out about it when they had
that that big boom up to 1,200 and so I think that Oh like I said I think over
time people are going to realize this more and more and again this stuff
really repeats if you look back into the 90s you can see these protocol Wars
tcp/ip vs. other protocols there was a huge suite of protocols that the telecom
companies tried to come up with and compete with tcp/ip compete with these
open-source protocols but of course the open source went out because it was just
more accessible anybody and everybody anywhere could build on it and that’s
what’s important this permissionless innovation is innovation at the edges
and this is how you gain Network effects is how you create networks that have
Network effects that can just at some point become insurmountable for example
like like like tcp/ip itself I mean it was at version 4 for so many many years
and even to this day it’s mostly version 4 ip’s out there vertice 5 peepers and 6
is very very very seldomly used and they just started really building it into the
the operating systems the server operating systems in the past couple of
years so this this this takes time network effects are real and they do the
do take time they do become at some point impossible to serve justice around
really so and that’s why that’s where the theory comes in about you know
Bitcoin big the ossification effect of a coin at some point being up not being
able to to really modify a layer one I don’t know how much I believe in that
fully uh because we do have things like soft works and we do have some pretty
clever developers but at the same time this stuff has been is really repeated
over and over again and I think the market continues to choose the open
source the permissionless way and at this point Bitcoin is the only game in
town Bitcoin is the only permissionless you
know decentralized blockchain at scale and so I don’t it’s only a matter of
time before more and more people figure this out all right gee yeah I’m all for
soft forts and people signaling you know what the right thing to do is I think
the argument I think I’d like to emphasize the scammer part because I
found it really helpful like you know if you go into investing with the mindset
that you’re mostly looking at scams it’s really helpful because it helps you like
dig a little bit deeper understand like okay where is the scamming part what
it’s like you know that they’re trying to get one over on you and so it’s
helpful to when you’re thinking adversary about it to think about how
they’re gonna try to potentially get one over on you so one of the things for
example that I think is kind of controversial is the idea that you
increase Bitcoin privacy on the base layer so not through mixers but through
whatever technology they’re planning to use and it’s kind of funny because when
we look at the parallel in Z cache you know you run into these situations where
Z cache has the best developers in zdk snarks it’s you know the the shielded
addresses are actually shielded nobody’s broken that yet but it’s not there’s a
section of Z cache which is not transparent so it’s not clear how many Z
cache are in that shielded section and then a few months ago I think there was
this there was this error or this flaw where it turns out that somebody who
found that out could have exploited it to create an unlimited amount of Z cache
in the shielded section so nobody else would have been able to validate the the
total supply of Z cache the Bitcoin anybody can validate is it sella visible
and the risk is that if you start obscuring it too much to the
point that it’s hard to validate then you run into the problem that Z cash has
where there was literally like two engineers who caught it and so you need
to not only know programming not only know like you know specific block chains
you need to be very very familiar with ZK starts and then very very familiar
with this particular code base so these types of attack vectors do exist
somebody could have exploited it and the only people who caught it was one of two
people and you know what these are nice people they’re very smart people and you
know I trust them but I don’t trust them that much I don’t trust them to the
point that I’m gonna like you know invest my life savings or I’m gonna you
know recommend other people invest their life savings or use it as a base layer
if these fundamental types of errors pop up and the only people who can validate
it are people who live you know in the United States and we know their names
and addresses and everything else and so some third party you could go and just
bribe them quite simply right so all these attack
vectors exist when you have that obscurity and then the thing that I like
about Bitcoin you know to some extent is that you just don’t have it’s pretty
chill like I don’t need to think about it with Zeke axe they’re making like in
addition to this shielded stuff they’re also like doing these hardcore works all
the time same thing with Manero Manero is is like
top tier next to bitcoin right but if if they’re hard working every six months
that’s every single time they hard work that’s another time they you as an
investor needs to be paying attention where somebody could be you know
potentially introducing like flaws into the protocol that they can later take
advantage of or where the developers could be introducing a type of algorithm
that you know they’ve already got the a6 ready for they could have planned this
two years in advance right you just never know how far in advance or what
types of games what type of level you’re playing at I’m in blockchain or in
Bitcoin so that’s kind of my strong form argument for no scammers or no scams or
everything is a scam all right we have gotten we are at the end of the
show basically so it’s time to wrap it up and bring up the subject matters that
you want to bring up anything that was forgotten anything went a had it’s been
a blast vortex what do you have well uh you know
did not a whole lot of stuff it was actually relatively slow week but I
think it was some awesome stuff happening in the privacy space in
Bitcoin really we’re in absolute bull market for privacy when it comes to
Bitcoin there is so much technology that is actually being worked on right now
and again not so much on that on the base layer of my narrow style as the as
Jesus said but really uh we’re at the transaction layer is where a lot of the
stuff is happening and so we have things like the samurai whirlpools they’re just
continuously reaching new level time highs of cycles every single month
steadily month over month I think they hit over 380 cycles just in the first 12
days month of September so a lot more people
using that that’s going to really great more people running whirlpool servers so
that’s really great I’m gonna see more and more of that we need to run
whirlpool servers we need to run ecash servers and Charma me cache servers and
we will be enlightening notes and I think we can scale Bitcoin to the planet
privacy uh privately so that’s can be really cool and then we got a new wasabi
wallet of the release of version 1.1 7 they just released a brand new version
they continue to – to optimize the wall over there and optimize everything over
there about that law about their coin joints that they have over there so
that’s the wasabi wall is the wall that allows you to do coin joins again more
privacy at the transactional layer they have added a couple things like manual
transaction fee settings and some Bitcoin URL support which is interesting
that’s pretty cool to see and so as a web developer that’s that’s what’s
interesting to me and then of course and you have treasurer introducing their
show me your backups which is pretty awesome based on Shamir’s secret sharing
which i think is pretty interesting because that allows you to really
securely split up your seed which is pretty interesting because you could do
like a 2 of 3 on your seed but if somebody gets that one they they’re
still screwed they can’t do anything where a few just like maybe chop off
your seed and they’re like three pieces like maybe somebody can guess the final
words right but when you’re doing a Chow Miam or tell me when you’re doing a
Shamir actual secret sharing you have to have at least two of those three you
can’t just have one so that’s that’s pretty interesting to see again a
practical example this would be you know a two of a two of three sort of backup
of your list so I think more and more privacy stuff is really happening a bit
but I’m really excited about that I’m trying to pay attention to it all but
there’s just just just so much and then finally there is a big a lightning
conference that I really want to make sure everybody knows about the
Lightning conference the world’s first lightning conference
Elizabeth Stark of forces is going to be a part of that lighting labs is over
there throwing this thing together it is the Lightning conference calm and
that is being held in Berlin October 19th and 20th highly recommend
anybody go over there and check that out because I mean all the oh geez like to
brag about the first Bitcoin conference that they went to you got trace you got
max right trace mayor Max Keiser some of these people some of these really early
og people bragging about all the time I was at that that first Bitcoin
conference but but guess what guys you can have the chance to be at the world’s
first lightning conference this this fall in Berlin so this October so check
that out I would go if I could I really unfortunate that I have some other
things I have to do but man October 19 to 20 is if they would have only
announced that just a week later I could have gone but but I recommend everybody
going on it really is gonna be awesome guys and I think it’s there’s gonna be a
whole lot of buzz around lighting during that time that’s gonna generate massive
amounts of buzz because guys there are thousands if not tens of thousands if
not hundreds of thousands of people out in the world right now working on
lightning projects because they understand that this really is a
bitcoins best shot at scaling transactions as layers above layer 1 so
I definitely check that out and I think that’s all for me yeah but you forgot
one thing crypto chaos network of course you can find out everything about me and
know everything I do over on my twitter account at the one vortex all spelled
out at the one vortex and of course crypto caste network is the YouTube
channel that I wrap that is my channel where we have bitcoin news and
information out there all the time so lots of content there the biggest show
we do is the Bitcoin news show that’s every other Sunday our next episode will
be airing the next Sunday after this the Sunday after this which I think it’s a
22nd so I look forward to that dude you gotta get cheat on that show
man yeah gotta get cheat on that show all right G you got to find a word here
what was uh what was left out what do you have to say I’m you’re muted you’re
muted the most interesting thing I saw on Twitter this past week was I think
this analysis that somebody had done on on on batalik scoyne and they kind of
looked at well how much has he cashed out and what’s he done it’s kind of
interesting to see that metallic whose like one of the smartest people in this
space underestimated how valuable
would be and sold the significant portion of his holdings which were
already pre mind to earlier so I think that’s an important lesson for all of us
because it’s kind of like I in addition to crypto I’m also just interested in
investing more generally and there’s a there’s an interesting pot there’s an
interesting podcast invest like the best if you guys are interested in destiny
should check it out and one of the guys there is like it like an OG investor in
Berkshire Hathaway and he was explaining his biggest regrets and one of them was
a store that he bought that he had and felt like it had like the you know the
value investing characteristics bought it back in like 2000 and it went up 20%
and he sold it and then since he sold it in 2000 it’s been a twenty bagger
so it’s gone it’s gone up 20 times and every time he was thinking you should
get back in but then he thought like look it’s too rich a price like I
already sold it for such a lower price I should wait for the price to come down
and it never came down so you can imagine the guy who was sitting there
when Bitcoin went from 900 to you know eleven hundred or a thousand and it
broke that barrier thinking I’ll get it when two below a thousand again and it
just hasn’t gone back down so not to induce FOMO like obviously you know size
your positions and be responsible about throwing all your money into it but I
think it’s important to think about the long term because the biggest gains are
not going to come next week with a 20% mean candle you’re gonna come ten or
twenty years down the line when Bitcoin scales from being still kind of an early
adopter thing into being completely mainstream so you know watching here in
that podcast and then seeing that Twitter thread just kind of highlighted
that for me and I hope you guys will you know fall that to that metallic analysis
that that thread can you send that to me because I’ll I’ll link to it below yes
it was a big deal like I think it was all like on the coin desk and stuff when
he saw I think he sold like 25 percent it was like was it like four or five
dollars it was something really small really ridiculous it was it was pretty
bad yeah I don’t know the numbers but I just remember looking at it and thinking
like dude how could you like I believe it was single digits you know it was it
was a it was just atrocious and the funny thing was to like that’s part of
the problem is with all the Souths coins like ether is a
particularly egregious example because it’s so successful and you know you
think like there’s so many people building either they should have done
the right thing in the beginning it would have made it more legit but
there’s other examples like even Manero those early guys in Manero Manero is
legitimate because they did all the right things but when they were first
launching that coin they were the early miners and they didn’t have the
foresight and the vision to see that what it could become so they all sold
significant portions of their like holdings very early so they sold for
cash because they like they didn’t see that manera was gonna go to I think like
$90 or whatever it’s at they sold in in a sense right so a lot of the people who
are oh geez you know that may not be the person that you want to look look to for
investment balls Ricardo Ricardo I remember Ricardo popping the champagne
on Twitter at like four dollars a coin Lizzie I remember when it went from like
two to four dollars he died I mean it done was a big deal it was it was 2016
memories oh geez okay dudes thank you very much jeet and vortex great show
remember we do this show every Friday this week in Bitcoin and then I do a
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shabbat shalom we will see you next week and tomorrow bye bye everyone

3 thoughts on “This week in Bitcoin- 9-13-2019- Wacky financial world, negative rates, French Libra, Coinbase, ETH”

  1. I managed to buy 500 coins of the Telegram mygram.fun/sale) the project is very sensational; I hope it will give its X-es!

  2. You saying how easy is to ban ETH or Tezos because is centralised makes no sense. Let me ask you if China or USA decides tomorrow to ban people from running a Bitcoin nodes and starts confiscating mining equipment to attack the chain what is going to happen?

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