This week in Bitcoin- 12-21-2018- Coinbase, censorship, proof of keys, altcoins



hello everyone this is adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin today is December the 21st 2018 strong hand long term thinking uncomfortable bitcoin is the next bitcoin alright so we're here early in the morning in the united states but if you're in israel if you're in europe it's it's the middle of the day and that's where these guests are that's where I am today and I'm really pumped to have the UK Bitcoin master back on the panel but we've got two new guys and they're not too new to you because you know these guys from Twitter from podcast from everything butI Wertheimer yeah he's here you know him you know him from Twitter man he's gets into some battles there now peter mccormick he gets it just a little bit of some battles there too he's got the what bitcoin did podcast i they're all linked to below all these guys social media stuff is linked to below and so we'll start off with peter who is in who's in england right now some news i didn't even plan to talk about but i thought it'd be you know they they were talking about so why not this facebook stable coin thing what peter what is this and what do you think about it it's it's such a disappointment but it probably as expected like if somebody just said what do you think facebook will do a crypto i probably would have said they will do you know suck coin FB coin whatever some proprietary blockchain proprietary stable coin where they will create wall guard and surveil everything you do surveil your payments and use that to do some form of further your advertising to you like Oh Pete bought X right so let's sell him ads based on this it almost certainly gonna link it into the ad product eventually because these companies are highly competitive they have a stock price to manage and the only way they can compete more is with more data so it's just a never-ending fight for more data and this gives them more data it's I'm gonna close my Facebook account whoa tell Matt like button people we're hearing stuff Wow now you keep it calm Master what he just said there he seems like he's talking about a some centralized type of coin but yet you know people people are getting all excited about this thing they don't care about centralization what do you think about this you can't Bitcoin master well you know if you if you will go back over this sort of nine months that I've been doing YouTube education videos I mean I don't really understand the tech I've got the fundamentals and that's why I'm as I guess as close as you can ever get to a Bitcoin maximalist I just don't think anything else that out there gets close I think I think there's a few coins out there that will have their place within crypto world because it's like saying well you can only have one bank no other Bank can exist you're all you're gonna have other other kryptos and I think I think that the thing that I would like to get the point I'd like to get across is whatever it is it is gonna be central is going to be centralized and when it's centralized there's gonna be a point of weakness you know it's going to be cheaper and people are going to run off and they're gonna try and buy these because they're the the greatest things because Facebook are doing it all whoever's doing it but the baseline is it is centralized the only coin that is not flipping centralized is Bitcoin you know yes it's not a hundred percent how we want it but you know at least nobody can tamper with it nobody's gonna come in and you know arrest someone or try and close something down and people just being sucked into all of this and you know I beat my head against a wall trying to get people to understand this they're you know stop worrying about what the price of Bitcoin is Star worrying about the fundamentals of why Bitcoin came into existence it's 10 years old on January 3rd you're never ever ever gonna see as low as it is right now for goodness sake get some Bitcoin and then hold it and do nothing you know I did a show a while back and I drew a comparison with something that Peter said earlier and and you know daddy's trading versus just holding and you know yes trading you can make some nail money definitely you know but you gotta have sleepless nights you gotta sit up in the middle of night you got to try and guess the top or try and guess the bottom and you know most traders are gonna flip and lose money you know so for me it is by the coin get it off onto my treasure and get on and enjoy my life and off alright I'm bit coin is uncomfortable but Facebook coin probably won't be I definitely will be confiscated Rudy what is what are your thoughts is just this just another big big name trying to get in the game yeah so it's it's really surprising I mean a lot of people say that it was to be expected I'm kind of surprised because it's still rumor at this point but it doesn't make any sense to me at all I mean you know Facebook experimented with payments with digital payments for a while they had it was called Facebook Credits which is a stable coin it was $1.00 you can use it Facebook games and apps and later they enabled people to send money on Facebook Messenger to each other and I think what's up right now the whatsapp application has a way for people in India to send money to each other so I mean these are already stable coins and they're backed by a fiat money and I don't know what's the difference with if you just slap the word blockchain or slap work with the currency in there it's only it's something else I don't know why would they even do that outside of just height value and some buzz worthiness so yeah I'm actually quite surprised about it seems like a non-issue a non-event to me to me it's a non-event but there are a lot of people out there and I was I was even going to talk about it's not even in the notes section below but I think a lot of people want to hear a big name like that they get all happy oh this is gonna save crypto this will end the so called bear market and people get their hopes up I mean they should have put their folks in centralized companies to save crypto or be patient people on Twitter this morning about it and like people are saying oh no this is gonna introduce billions of people to crypto I'm thinking no it's not this is this is this is venmo this is venmo some people won't even realize it's crypto it isn't crypto let's be honest it's it's it won't teach them about crypto it won't teach them about Bitcoin and won't teach them about the reason this is boredom to us it is just a tool it'll be a tool for surveillance and a tool for advertising nothing more nothing less it's just ugly there's no interest and what a horrible irony that Jacque uber is gonna go to war with the Winklevoss again and this time is over stable coins and ha well this is a question since I want to hear your opinion on stable coins what do you think about stable coins Peter well I like it mixed you know like I've I've gradually found myself becoming more kind of a maximalist or sympathize with maximalism and when I first like well if I SEOs will first happened I was thinking well this doesn't make sense because companies are invested in X million that could be worth 20% less than a day wouldn't a stable Kony makes sense so you know you have your runway and blah blah blah and if you're raising funding for a company that makes more sense and then I would hear like Maximus maybe even some like Doody put out like this is stable coins a terrible blah blah blah and I'd be like ok well I see I see their point because actually it's just a digital confiscate of all version of Fiat but I have heard a couple of examples recently where the use case makes sense like so I interviewed Zak prints from block Phi and he was saying you know they dollar Boren is very important around the world a huge amount of huge number of people in different countries want to borrow the dollar you know people in Argentina want to borrow the dollar and it's no there's no point trying to get these people to just borrow in Bitcoin it's too unstable it's too volatile for them yes they could have a little but there's no point putting all their money if they want to borrow money a dollar borrow then burn dollar makes much more sense to them and using a stable coin there's an easy way therefore for them to be able to lend globally to issue the funds and them to transact and convert their local currency if people want to do that and people do do that that is a use case and for me I don't buy the argument no no there's a Bitcoin instead because the on board and off-boarding to their bank accounts too hard and it's volatile so I get that I agree with that stable coin and also I interviewed Alex Christine from the human rights foundation who is a fundamental believer in both Bitcoin and maked out he thinks they both have a use case and both are very important and again for a similar reason there are people in certain scenarios around the world who don't have access to banking services or don't have access to certain facilities and volatility it's not going to be useful for them so whilst I don't love stable coins I understand the use case but I would be very very much like to hear you DS view on this yeah that's what I was going to next you know I respect that guy so much oh thank you guys Oh shots so yeah I mean stable coins it definitely isn't a competition to Bitcoin I think it it tries to compete with something like a bank account or something like PayPal or venmo and so on this is what it makes more sense and the thing about these double stable coins if you look at something like USD see from coinbase and circle then they have these terms these disagreements where they tell you that they are allowed to confiscate your funds for whatever reason they are allowed to blacklist your account and just take your coins so how is that different from PayPal I mean if I if I live in the country where I don't have access to bank services I can you know cheat my way into opening a PayPal account by using fake documents or whatever and I risk the the possibility that they will at some point confiscate my funds and it's the same with you as lessee I mean what's the difference and I think that one interesting thing that people told me when I use that argument is that because US DC and other stable coins use a blockchain then it's transparent when they're confiscating someone's funds and they will have to make some public announcement about it and explain it which hopefully would make it more of a rare event but we're seeing lately that a lot of large platforms like PayPal and and Twitter and Facebook and patreon and Apple are censoring big players online and they don't feel the need to explain why they're doing it and no one seems to make a very big deal of it apart from you know some online activists so I don't think that just because it's transparency now change something I think there's gonna be an event where something like USD coin goes from zero confiscations they never made any confiscation to the first confiscation of someone's funds and during this time they will have to explain why they're doing it but the next time it'll be much easier for them and it'll be just as common as PayPal confiscating funds so I'm not sure what it's for it's a novelty right now but if it becomes popular much of what it's for interesting Brian to be honest with you the bigger picture I mean I I don't know because I am probably as close as you're ever gonna get to a maximalist with Bitcoin I hear all this and I just I see it as noise or I think it's out there and it's it's going to educate the wider public on the crypto you know community to space but I just think it's gonna take a lot of people down the wrong path I just think it's gonna you know stuff like this is just taking people away from what I believe is sound money you know digital money in the future and so I'm sort of quite boring on a show like this because I'm just in May 2017 I have never seen or heard Krypto you know I was 57 years of age getting on with my life and I got a phone call out of the blue and it just I just delved into it and researched and researched and researched and I've just learned so much over the last 18 months but everything I read about and everything I hear I just I just see it as something that's ultimately gonna lose people a load of money or give them the wrong impression of what this space is about and then they're going to drift out the other end again and and my goal is just to keep educating people so we can build these 20 percenters but you're never gonna get away from 80 percenters you're always going to have those people that have been pulled off in those directions you know and going by these stable coins I mean I don't I don't the the guys on the show you know they're the techy guys I'm not the techy guy go on I think one that you brought up is very a very good one that if the popularity of stable coins it will encourage people to trade more I think it it's just a tool to make trading easier and thus it is a distraction there is the Oh everybody wants to create every buddy and their brother is creating a freakin stable coin right and it's and it's just it's encouraging more people to trade and eventually the it's gonna be a game of musical chairs they're gonna be a bunch of traders that have been going in and out of whatever and are stuck in that coin and that coin is gonna disappear and a lot a lot of people are going to get hurt by Segen imbibe melter spikes which then makes it even harder to create the future adoption in yeah but more but but again for for the people I mean Peter did give some use cases for for stable coins okay I mean those were legitimate your cases gay but I'm gonna I'm telling you most people that are in this space aren't gonna use them for things like they're just gonna use it to make getting into a 50 R all coins easier and it's not I don't know how safe all of these well I do know they are all centralized so they aren't as safe as Bitcoin to me bitcoin is my stable coin okay there you go that that's that's my conclusion and I think it shows everybody knows that's my conclusion I think everybody before they buy anything in crypto you can't do it but they should be made to read Koen standard me I get a new culture people it's it's you know people are making all sorts of mistakes and it's you know it's their own fault now speaking about that I want a past show of mine I quoted a great tweet on Peter about some mistakes that he made some there were some he had some wild times over the since 2016 and maybe you could tell your story a little bit what would happen to you what you did and and your progression and then we can kind of apply that to today what people are going through the tool version is with no plan at all by mainly luck and guessing whilst convincing myself as some kind of genius I turned thirty two thousand dollars into 1.2 million and then and then turned it back pretty much to zero but it's you know it's fine I don't mind people think that but I'm okay with it well first of all I own my show where I talked about this i commended you because there are so many guys out there that just they tell the opposite story oh how I got my lambo we you are a big public figure in this space you got a great podcast in everything and you're straight up there on Twitter saying hey man this is the real me I gotta pay taxes and I mean that was part of your part of your losses from yet you have to pay taxes and stuff and I think people totally forget about that part when they're trading unfortunately the IRS in the United States probably won't let a lot of people forget about that part but so no I really commend you that this is the honest truth out there you know there I caught a glamour or mistakes people love to get into the glamour silent trading off coins you know going back and forth into tether whatever it is but for me the simple thing is always you know stick with the Bitcoin Bitcoin is that is the easy thing but and then you hear stories like this and it reminds you that hey learn everything no one is a genius in this space and you should be modest and you should be willing to share stories like this so I do I do give you credit but yet to this very day we still have people that think that are ready to live that lifestyle again oh yeah sv that's the newest thing I'm gonna buy a bunch why don't you buy an SB I mean the thing the things you hear so uh Judy what's your what's your opinion on the current ah on social media the the themes the the aura that's going on that we seem to have some people that are very like growing toward hardcore Bitcoin but we've got another branch of people that they still want to have the next big class they don't think they're always the next Bitcoin yeah well we'll always have people who think that they'll find the next Bitcoin I think that it's never going to go away as long as Bitcoin exists but yeah I mean first of all social media has become much more quieter I think in the recent months which is probably a good thing there was a lot of noise all around and I think that a lot of people were you know we're basically on social media to push their affiliate links for various crypto exchanges and so on so they're there they're pretty much gone so yeah that's one thing I think that yeah well obviously seeing more people who are kind of Bitcoin maximalist I personally don't like this term by the way um I feel like it's not fair it's you know is this I'm not I'm not in Bitcoin because I think only Bitcoin can succeed I think that bitcoin is the only thing right now that fits what I'm looking for and if at some point we get something better I'll be very happy about it I I don't think we have anything that's remotely close to what this coin has to offer so I don't like the term bets core maximalist but people use it so yeah I think a lot more people are kind of warming up to the idea that Bitcoin makes a lot more sense than other assets that happen to be listed on corn market cap and I think that's a good thing it will probably change if we get another bull around the way it's it's temporary I would say yeah I mean do you foresee all coin pumps in the future um actually I I'm of the opinion that this the whole idea of old coin might be kind of behind us now not because people don't want to replace that coin I think that they're gonna fight over the top stable coin spot and the top smart contract spot and things like that and not so much about being the next Bitcoin I think by the way this is what stable coins are probably trying to do they trying to be the base asset that people will use for trading various cryptocurrencies so I don't think that people will look at these as old coins as alternatives to Bitcoin anymore but probably more as alternatives to stocks or alternatives to – well I would I want to put it out there that I think you know we obviously went through a Knopf Corning insane bubble and people compare this to the dot-com bubble I don't think we've had our comp bubble yet in encrypt though I think there'll be a big I think there'll be guys like Peter the same thing is gonna happen again and that's what I want to go back to Peter what do you think on that with will there be a guys that is it gonna happen again and will it be bigger I mean yeah there'll be more pumps I mean it just happens it's yeah it's a game like the way the way I see a trading these tokens are a game because most of them you don't actually own anything now like I'm we've UD like the the term maximalism is kind of it's a tough one because it does help categorize something and it you know an appropriate and it means you can kind of have a definition around it but the reality is is that if somebody wants to buy like coin or well they want to buy Manero Z that's totally fine it's open free market and if they want to trade or use it I spend it fine it doesn't make sense in the long term if you look at the fundamentals but but you know what a lot of things in life don't make sense people can still do it that's like it's totally free choice I've got no problem with it at all and almost certainly if there is another Bitcoin run there will be another run on some of these coins it's like I put out a tweet yesterday where I was all you day before I said like Bitcoin defines the market if Bitcoin goes up there will be an altcoin market you know if theoria more one more certainly go up and it will be a lifeline to a bunch of these icos which were really struggling financially but it's all go down to Bitcoin of Bitcoin everything else dies I'm personally not trading anymore because I don't have the time to busy on the podcast and I'm not very good at it but if I was good at it I would happily trade all coins on certain ones to make more Bitcoin okay I've got I've got no problem trading aetherium to accumulate more Bitcoin servant coins I think we have to be very realistic and look at the ethical side of it if your trade like majority of these projects are gonna go to zero they're going to die so you know it's a game of hot potato you know if you're trading something you'll do doing it so we eventually pass it on to somebody else who's going to lose on it okay so but it's it might not be an exact zero-sum game but it's not far off so you've got to be comfortable to the fact that you're going to be moving your debt to somebody else like if you make a million dollars a million dollars has probably been lost somewhere realistically and you got to be comfortable with that and I per say I'm not comfortable that anymore I think I think I'm much happier now – I've got a very small about Bitcoin left and I'm gonna go back to working hard and making money in the real world and accumulate in Bitcoin either by people donating or buying or spending money on my podcast in one way or another all transferring my own money into buying random regular Matt Bitcoin play the long game yeah see where we are ten years and then I'll buy a Lambo my bag exactly value your wealth and Bitcoin and that I think you do James Dell Jericho Sam $1.99 in the super chat he said is there a vaccine for this Bitcoin disease no there is no or maybe an ICO is that well that'll get you sick and then you anyway okay so wait I speaking of I SEOs that's a Peter you mentioned I SEOs and I'm going to stick with you on this there there's a to me there's a big difference between these I cos and top tier all coins at least what do you see for the future of ICO is I don't I don't see that as repeating again I don't think we'll have an IC o—- pump I said I did they did but there will be some kind of security to girlfriend would ya I'm a regulated version and I have no issue with that if if there is a way of raising funds by using a security token which makes more in an administrative way and can raise them funds on from a global liquidity pool and opens up investment to more people and if more liquidity on a security token is better for the market then I've got no problem with that you know I've got no problem with that at all that's you know we don't have to just state archaic technology because we're scared of people using crypto ver anything but Bitcoin I just think all it is is a is a it's just a changing the way funding is raised at the moment you know you're gonna be have a token rather than a share certificate and a draw does that make more sense probably is it exciting not really is more liquidity yeah I remember I was talking to one of the reasons people quite like security tokens is it gives more liquidity to investments like if you're a an investor in some kind of venture fund it's very hard to exit from your investments you know you've got to find something you wants to buy the business from you or your stake in the business or the or as there has to be an IPO it has to be some exit by having security tokens the argument is you have a more liquid market so you can trade trade at any point but that's also bad right because early-stage venture most companies really shouldn't be considering their valuation it should be just focusing on product development you know there's no way you should be trading the value of a company before it's even shipped a product you know that's why that's why venture has a seed round and a round be around a seed round you've inch it up to an IPO so you can scale the business in terms of value structure tech by creating security tokens that you could trade the value of a business before it's created any value is kind of kind of dumb really so but I've got no doubt they'll try people are gonna find wanna find use cases and by the way that's cool you know innovation comes from experiments I'm totally cool with that so make sure right yes definitely and so when we're on this topic of AI CEOs and security tokens I mean it reminds me a little bit of a coin base because coin base has been listing us some iam tokens lately and they're there they're going hardcore into really into a theorem I want to hear what do you about the coin basis direction and you can also mention the future of I CEOs what are you see and if you had any thoughts on what Peters is that uh yeah so or on I cos I think that yeah I definitely agree with Peter that this format of ICO is probably dead but I agreed that you know if we get a more open funding model where more people can participate it's not a bad thing I'm all for it the the the problem I had with I SEOs were that they were basically fueled with lies and scams you know you just they people made up crazy ideas for how tokens are gonna function and how they're gonna be valued at they had just no you know nothing to do with reality so I think it's very good that people finally realize that if you have a stock that's represented as a token yeah whatever I don't know it's not just not as interesting but sure why not about coinbase I I was actually pretty surprised by that too I I was I was convinced that coinbase would only least coins that went up in value since the ICO so they started with things like they were talking about brave and Z cash and coins like that that people who were early investors in that made a nice chunk of money and they're not complaining to anyone right they're not knocking down on the sec doors saying that they were being cheated because they made money but a lot of the newer coins investors lost and lost like ninety five percent of their money so i I was convinced that coin base was gonna stay away from them and they didn't so this is kind of a big surprise I don't know why you know things like what was it the central and the the guys selling virtual reality you real estate I mean why why why is why would the coin based wanna have anything to do with it I don't know I don't know what they do I hope retail investors will learn enough and lost enough money to to research this thoroughly before investing those things oh I see that the thing issue here is a lot of people just are gonna blindly trust coin basin if they seize the liqui on there their leak was just like Bitcoin I'm gonna get me some zhilie quenelle I mean I couldn't believe it they're listing something called is elite wow I don't even know what that really it is I you know a but Brian let's let's get back to you here it seems like there's a some diversification for the sake of diversification on coinbase I don't know how big coin base is to you in the UK in in America is a huge on-ramp though so did you have any thoughts on this is this or people gonna be led astray and they're gonna well they're gonna end up buying zaleka and storing it on coin basis well I um yeah coin basis big over here now we know that this it's obviously linked up with some UK banks and stuff but you know again you know when they're selling these bundles and you know the uninitiated the uneducated it's just going to come in and and I'm doing my you know level best to tell people to buy some Bitcoin but of course when they get on there I mean I've got it I've got a consultation this afternoon with my stepmom bless her who wants to get some Bitcoin you know and I'm gonna be involved in that because I want to ensure that she doesn't do what 90% of people do and go wow there's a lot cheaper one there I can get so many more instead of getting that Bitcoin you know it is now I mean I I don't know what I don't know what direction coin pouch is going I really don't know what the ratio I can't fathom in help there certainly I don't know I think I've lost their way i I don't know what I don't know what can come up be hot Peter gone I don't know what can I clean well I think what's going on with coinbase please please I think I think there's two main things going on with coinbase okay firstly is they've obviously lost a bunch of business – bye Nance right they see what's happened with by now so the trading there of tokens and they've thought we want part of that and again there another that they're in the kind of venture trap you know serious rounds of funding do they raise 500 million or four billion valuation or 8 billion whatever it is you know yeah so whoever invested that stage once that to become a twenty billion company 50 billion or so on whatever so as to keep growing so how do you grow you make more revenue how do you make more revenue well we've maxed our Bitcoin and if we don't have it's kind of like the Google Facebook thing they they have a hunt for more data so they can offer better at targeted ad products therefore they question they go over the lines of morality they will track your phone they will track everything you do online because they want to give a better ad product so you can do more targeted ads so they can make more money you know this is the same way like coinbase it's like well if we have more tokens we can do more trading blah blah blah now I you know whilst I love Bitcoin I do want to stand by that we have a free market you can do what you want if people want to trade other coins so beer I all the power to them you know if you want like coin you go ahead I've got no problem with that at all my main problem with coin base is the fact that they're not educated in the right way like when they announced this week they've got this cool idea where you can learn crypto and get paid in crypto to do it and like if that's Bitcoin core imagine you have a pickle training course and each module you get a few sets and it goes into your wallet and as part of the training you send to another person who's doing the training as well and and you're seeing it works and you're earning sat so you're learning I'm like that's a really cool idea what a great way to educate people because let's be honest we're all like two three five whatever years in and we're all still learning it's a massive rabbit hole so to get somebody from day one to understand in Bitcoin it's a big job so if they did that call but they're not they're teaching you how to use 0x a coin token for decentralized exchanges which I don't understand why I need it so why the hell would say my dad want to go on coinbase I learn about 0x and hold that it's just utter stupidity we are beyond stupid and and that's why I haven't the main problem with is that they are there blindly leading people into buying useless they don't need so yeah so I think it's two things I think firstly its competition it's absolute competition they they are competing with violence and secondly they've got to grow their revenues Oh actually there's another reason I think they did oh by the way and this is just a suspicion I'd love to know what you guys think but as this market crashes and as people are exiting and selling off their tokens and you know last to the door why not make money as people exit you know they they're gonna make money whether people are buying or selling doesn't mean it doesn't make a difference to them so why not provide a market for you to sell and exit your tokens why not you're gonna make a revenue off it hoodie your thoughts on that yeah I mean for sure and the nice thing about 0x the the 0x video courses that they have is that it's kind of it's a marketing scheme it's a marketing scheme for 0x that's I mean the reason they can't do a course on Bitcoin a video course on bitcoins bitcoins away is that no one's gonna fund this no one's gonna give them bitcoins so that they can give them a way for you to users because you know we want our bitcoins we don't want to give them away okay um when it comes to 0x no one wants them no one wants to have their 0x cords and they don't care to give them away for marketing schemes so the the 0x project or the 0x team sits on I don't know how many is your X tokens they are very happy to give them a way to coin raise to support these are actually ads you know if they call it a video cause but it's an ad for four zero accidentally they get they get marketing for free basically it's a propaganda course and it's a it's I mean it shows you what the real money is they're giving away the stuff that's not the stuff they give away isn't the real money over a blockchain dot info they give away stellar if you sell it I mean it says it's the same type of thing what did no one's give it away Bitcoin of course not no that's but that's the real thing and that that teaches the lesson right there but bro I'm also glad that Brian reminded us all of the point that coin base has something called the bundle you just you go there you can simply buy the bundle and they just give you a weighted a weighted combination about all of them and they probably give you more Bitcoin but they still are giving you all this other stuff too that you really don't know you don't understand you definitely don't know how to even send it how to store it properly and well they want to be a they want to be a crypto bank so it just it leads people in their direction that the newbies who by the bundle they'll be like I'll just leave it there I'll leave it at the bank they don't realize this I mean and to each their own if you don't understand that crypto isn't about crypto banks then well you'll learn and you'll have to have trust that coinbase will never get hacked and everyone tells me a rule their FDIC I'm sure it had no more it's it's totally safe okay it's it's safe until it isn't safe and that actually is a good segue into what a trace mayor is doing proof of keys proof of keys dot-com right is that the yeah proof of keys calm on January third which is the what 10-year anniversary of Bitcoin and where there's a big party here in Tel Aviv that are you going to be there Rudi at the party and every party's well I'll be there tulipe parties all over the world but not only will we be partying in Tel Aviv and all over the world but a people will be moving there Bitcoin off of exchanges in controlling their own private keys that's what this site is about proof of keys calm so I want to Rufus make a difference when people actually do this and could it expose some if it was a large enough movement it could expose some exchanges to being a fractional reserve base but Brian what do you think about proof of the proof of keys concept first of all love it I just think it's gonna keep them honest I mean the challenge is of course you know what percentage of people are gonna actually do that I mean that I've got nothing on the exchange zero it's all on the Tresor but the point is I mean it's a phenomenal initiative but it's only a phenomenal initiative if enough people were to pull their coins off because I'll tell you why it would keep the exchanges honest now one thing like the the major plus for this tip for me is this going to keep the exchanges honest because if you know for if everyone pulls their coins off you're gonna find the week hat you're gonna find the loopholes you can see them without a doubt Peter well you just talk to trace I think Peter what do you think about proof yeah I'm literally will be publishing that interview once we're done here in the next couple of hours and yeah great conversation with trace I think one of the not great oh no it's for geez died hold on sorry come on here you there go okay so start again yeah you kiss with my destron so I think what it is is that's a side benefit of keeping the exchanges honest I think I think hold on wait a second here we go sorry my dad was calling me and the main reason here is to teach people about you know not your keys not your Bitcoin yeah most people won't have been around you in Mongkok so I wasn't really I didn't really know about I read about it kind of scary but all the other hacks is and when I first heard about it I was like yeah this is cool so I changed my handle I'm like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna take myself off the exchange I was like I'll hold on I don't have anything on an exchange because I'm not an idiot so so I fully support what choices do and I think is utterly brilliant and yeah you know what it probably won't make a big difference this year but I think it's gonna be an annual event every single year he's gonna be pushing this January 3rd let's do it let's get your coins off of the exchange but one funny thing is I did here I wanna try to say well I'm not taking mine off because this might lead to us a price spike there's a lack of liquidity on the exchange then I'm gonna be on there selling so there are people who might take advantage of it yeah that's that's true too i I don't know how many people can actually participate it in or not I think it's a good and it's a public education initiative at the very least it's not like people being paid in stellar or anything like this this is real education this is a real one simple base back control your own private keys so many people don't know that one thing found that like button by the way a and so what do you think about that yeah I think it's great for sure it's a really great initiative I fully agree about you know the mount Guk's think a lot of people just weren't around back then and they they don't know how it feels to have an exchange crash out there and feed them and lose all of your money so it's it's it's a good thing to reiterate on that unfortunately I think that a lot of times people only learn when they actually lose real money so I guess that you know the effect might be a little limited but if anyone if even person gets to you know really move their keys coins off the exchange then it's a win for everyone and I think it will be a lot more than just one person so that's a great I think it's right there he teaches people as well to to start moving their coins because most people ain't got flippin clue how to make them yeah yeah that's true a lot of people never you know never never had any wallet that's not the exchange so yeah that's that's a great point I'll tell you something you d if I can when I when I first bought my coins and I move them the FIR the first moving of a coin I moved a fraction of my Bitcoin and I was scared to death and my heart was banging and pounding and it didn't show up in the wallet and I went into freak mode and it was just a delay but you know it was a really scary thing I have to say and I think people Adam says it and he says it right you know unless you buy it's a Bitcoin and move your coins around and get familiar with that side of it now sorry I didn't mean to take your thread there but you know it's just people that if you just buy it and keep it offline I don't think you're learning about the crypto space I think you need to move your coins around and you need to be you know it's as simple as trying to move your coin and not checking if it's on a treasure or something if you're moving Bitcoin to Bitcoin are you moving bitcoins you and aetherium address and it's just a mean and so what Peter said you know perfect you know people need to practice moving coins around and knowing they can do it correctly such a big deal yeah what would I specifically say is you have to know how you have to have sent a Bitcoin I know how to send a Bitcoin before you buy a like on you shouldn't be buying all coins unless you've sent a Bitcoin and there are so many people who have not been provided that it that now own 0x and have never sent a Bitcoin and it's growing every day so bizarre traces on one side the spectrum coinbase is on the other side of the educational spectrum and I guess everyone here can see where we are on that all right we're moving on I want to talk about something that's been in the in the regular news and that's all these social media people being censored being kicked off a patreon being kicked off of youtube oh woe is me let's create a new patreon they're saying to me it is so obvious people just set up a Bitcoin address Bitcoin is the answer to censorship right there are age after ship is gonna get more people in the Bitcoin what do you think about that Peter yeah it's you know I think it's just part of what we have to accept that platforms will get censored it's just the way it is can't do anything about it we're not gonna change it we're not gonna build good facebook on the blockchain or YouTube on the blockchain despite what some people think it's just it's not cool and we should stand up and we should voice our opinion but it's not I don't see it changing we've no live in a surveilled authoritarian Orwellian kind of world now it's just it's the reality of where it is you know Bitcoin addresses don't solve the completely went for the scenario like when patreon started censoring some people were like you need to change close down your patreon page and accept Bitcoin bomb like look reality is people make a Direct Debit payment via patreon and that you UX feature is useful for me because I don't have to go to people every month and remind them and people you know people will forget subscription models do work I offer both you can you can donate in Bitcoin you could donate in seg worth Bitcoin you could donate in Manero you can be a patron censorship isn't cool I don't know I don't know the answer alright with it and then well tally coin is trying to be a crypto well a Bitcoin version of patreon so there there you go there's there's Dana one one thing that's out there od what's what are your thoughts on all this yeah so so definitely Bitcoin is the most useful where where censorship exists I think so yeah if you want to get donations and and PayPal or patreon won't let you then bitcoin is great but it's true that there's a UX issue there people wouldn't just keep sending you if you don't remind them to send you money every month so you know I guess that's it's likely the tulsi competitors to patreon that are based on Bitcoin you know just let you deposit your bitcoins and then they disperse them to you to the people that you subscribe to do but the thing is that this is not censorship of this resistant right if this if a service like that becomes big enough then they will censor people too so there's not like a built-in solution to that in Bitcoin but you know Bitcoin might provide an alternative the nice thing about Bitcoin is it provides an alternative that's maybe not as easy to use as other methods but just the existence of the alternative can get the competition to lighten up so if you know if a lot of people use Bitcoin to donate to people that they support then maybe next time patreon would think twice before censoring someone because you know they have competition now so this is the the one thing – I think Bitcoin is great at even though it's not the base based user experience yeah I actually that I hadn't heard that point yet that is providing competition maybe don't keep the other guys honest but again I think I see I see more and more people getting unwanted people getting kicked off platforms and maybe being D banked eventually – it'll come other people will be Julian Assange so what you guys are saying with the user experience I mean yeah patron is easy but it sucks out your money for you every month it doesn't for you in with Bitcoin you got to be proactive if you wanted to support someone with Bitcoin you got to be proactive so that is it's a someone will come up with something someone would but it would booty said if if someone's going to build just a simple Bitcoin version of a patreon that could be shut down too because there's your centralized weak point it is is the Bitcoin version of patron anyway it is interesting I thought I thought this would wake me I hope this will wake more people up to Bitcoin you know this what's going on now with the censorship how about you Brian what do you what do you see why are you pretty well stole everything I was going to say really but you know that there's two sides to this argument if you if you think about it it's okay you know and Peter I agree with you but you know a different slant is you know when you've got you know these big hitters that are bringing one hell of a lot of money in you know through patreon and the like and it is stopped that is an instant revenue stopped it's gone it's done okay it doesn't matter what they try and create in terms of something else if there's a central point of weakness it's gonna happen again and it's gonna happen again it's gonna happen again and whilst the Bitcoin experience isn't how we would want it as simple as something like patreon the mere fact that it can't be stopped it can't be censored it can't be shut down is is on with Adam I'm a hundred percent with haven't now I don't understand it Oh like like you guys do but you know just looking at fundamentals of it I you know these these guys that are gonna go out and try and recreate their own patreon I mean for God's sake they're setting ourselves up for failure they might get away with it for a while it might grow but you know bang is gonna go again well any I think I think one thing that's interesting you said that these big players that are losing tremendous amounts of revenue what I would like to see is one of them instead of trying these convoluted solutions just putting it all out there saying hey I'm going Bitcoin ya know it's hard for you guys but this is this is the end solution I see the end game I don't want to do these middlemen solutions anymore it's gonna take someone it's gonna take someone big to do that and it's gonna take some cojones to do that also we shall see if it happens if it does happen you know we go we're going forward into a world where you know we're gonna buy and sell things through Bitcoin anyway we're just waiting for the on-ramp someone big someone to to do something where it wakes everyone up and you know the flood gates are opened you know I mean the way I see it you know I'm a lot older than you guys but you know my kids and grandkids you know they're gonna live in a world where you know we value our wealth and built Bitcoin you know we buy and sell in Bitcoin you're not I mean so it's gonna start somewhere by the way brain you alluded that you're a little older than some of us here you mentioned off air something that you got from experience what was that that that PE phrase with all the P words in it you said okay well because we're live there are two versions there's seven P's and the six PS and I won't use the 7-piece because one of them's a curse word as you say but so perfect planning and preparation prevents poor performance there you go that's that's East think about that when you're getting in the crypto people plan take your time with this stuff don't rush into it that's one thing the one thing the guy did for me that Gary when he called me he said Brian he said I'm telling you now he said this is not financial advice he said my on my advice to you is get on to youtube and start watching as many Bitcoin videos as you can and that's all I've done that is it and then but you're also stubborn but by doing that people in the day they stumble upon the bit connect once – yeah Lammert rats okay I did watch a few of them until I realized what I needed to weed allow and get to my core people did I follow so you know and and again you know I guess that's maybe I've got a bit of a sensible head on my shoulders and there'll be a lot of people that won't they won't dig in they won't look under the surface they won't find the right people to follow you know and they will go and make their mistakes but I think we live in a world where we learn by our mistakes it shapes us yes and some people are going to learn the hard way unfortunately and then we're here too so people don't have to learn the hard way all right well now we're getting we're getting toward the end of the show here but they're still so there's some other subject matters we've probably left off here Peter is there anything that you wanted to add anything you want to tie up the subjects that you thought should have been brought up today so one thing I often say that sometimes people don't reversal and one of the reasons I've not been too bothered about you know I lost all that money trading and I lost sort of that money on mining I mean I lost so most of my money on mining actually is that just fine all coins and tokens and all the I think it's net benefit for Bitcoin is it's great it's got a net benefit to Bitcoin because all the FOMO all the tokens all the exchange is everything going to happen as all these people into the market but really like when you start engaging your brain all roads lead back to Bitcoin you know when you objectively look at things most roads lead back to Bitcoin therefore a lot of this might be collateral damage for the growth of Bitcoin for the expansion of a Bitcoin and I am totally cool with that I'm totally fine with that if like if in ten years time Bitcoin has become this global reserve settlement currency I'll look back and go well you know I lost a bit of money mining but I contributed to the security of the network and I'm proud of that and yeah I lost all this money trading but all that trading and everything was a net benefit to Bitcoin so ice to see it as collateral damage I'm a learning curve yeah Unni what do you have any conclusionary thoughts any any stories that we so yeah I think we lost Adam but I'll just continue so yeah so I think that one thing about coin base right there that I tweeted I think yesterday or two days ago was that we shouldn't get too angry about marketing schemes that we find maybe fishy if people like cotton base want to give us away 0x tokens then you know I'm fine with taking them converting them to Bitcoin putting them in cold storage and call it a day it's a profit for me maybe bad idea for them but I'm fine with it and people should take this opportunity learn about use those opportunities to learn about Bitcoin understand what's in it for them instead of what's in it for some service provider and just convert it to Bitcoin and go on with their lives don't get angry about it so can I we've lost Adam so can I ask you guys something being maybe way ahead of me in terms of tech etcetera you know what are the alternatives that are out there for people coming into this space you know apart from coin basin I'm obviously we've got local bitcoins but they're all going down the KYC route I mean what is out there is there anything out there that you guys have seen that maybe new that is decentralized it has gots got some merit and you watching in terms of it you know an exchange yeah I think two things that people started talking about like these one is bisque that used to be called bit square one is huddle huddle which is pretty similar actually here that went away what are you guys are talking about she went on the show we curse a lot yeah so so two two alternatives to coinbase that work kind of worldwide there's one is bisque which was used to be called bit square and the other one is hot a lot older yeah very similar they're they're they're more alike they're most similar to two local bitcoins then there are two coinbase but there's no kyc enrolled and people can kind of trade peer-to-peer which is nice you still have to maybe meet in person to exchange cash or send a wire transfer or whatever method is acceptable to both parties but it's a nice way to find someone else that would want to trade bitcoins with you so and then they decentralized do be centralized is a spectrum I guess so I don't know I'm not sure there's in both cases there's some kind of central authority but they try to keep out of it most of the time and the nice thing is I hope they stick around but even if they don't the they built in a way that they can be replaced so that's that's a nice thing I guess all right well I'm glad everybody kept the show alive when I was gone I don't know what you talked about but it was no doubt it was awesome everyone okay so it does anyone else hear of you three guys have any subject matters any conclusion area remarks you want to share yeah yes he took good Merry Christmas you could tell Brian's in the mood look look at his background there say something wrong we love Christmas in the UK there you go well okay but Brian you did not did you have any conclusionary words I didn't ask you specifically is the other guy said if you have any uh any advice of words of wisdom from experience yeah I do get on an exchange buy some Bitcoin get it onto a treasure and get on with your life and wait yeah are raisins coun that like button well thank you guests from all over the world and thank you live viewers we do this show every single Friday this weekend pick one you can follow me on Twitter at Tech ball te CH B alt and go to tech balkon see all the old this week in Bitcoin shows link to below are all these guys links you can follow them see their videos their pockets or whatever that they're doing out there they rocked it today bang that Bell button if you need a reminder when this goes live always pound that like button my I do a new show here every day Saturday night is the beyond Bitcoin show we talk about all sorts of things that are way beyond Bitcoin and crypto i'm adam meister the bitcoinmeister disrupt meister merry Christmas everyone and shabbat shalom I will see you guys later bye bye eggs

4 thoughts on “This week in Bitcoin- 12-21-2018- Coinbase, censorship, proof of keys, altcoins”

  1. Good to see Trace Mayer’s Proofofkeys 3rd Jan event is causing concern for fudsters and short sellers – good show as usual.🎅🏼

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