This week in Bitcoin- 10-5-2018- Coinbase, metrics, South Africa, insurance, ErisX



hello everyone this is adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this suite in bitcoin today is October the 5th 2018 strong hand long-term thinking the fur love gratification uncomfortable all right we got Zack ball here we got Murad Mahmoud off here and we've got Abraham Cambridge coming from South Africa the other two dues are coming from United States of America I'm in Chile Santiago right now we got to jump into the show boos we only got Zak for 15 minutes but will to show will go on after Zak's he's got a very important call to make that he just got notification of but this is awesome so Zak we're starting with you welcome back to the show this week coinbase has been in the news quite a bit uh-huh and last week also and they are a big they are a big player in this space you gotta say that about whether you like them or hate them this company Tiger it might be investing in them and making them one of the most valuable startups in the world and at the same time they they've released the good news that they have a twenty five million users now and that's more users than they're ever gonna be Bitcoin so that's pretty impressive so Zak what's going on what do you think about this situation I know that's that's unless I'm one of my favorite data points about this whole thing that so we often talk about how like every millionaire in the world can't own a full Bitcoin or something like that and how if the total supply is divided up equally among the entire worlds population everyone will have like point one three zero point zero one three Bitcoin or something but now it's coming to the point where everyone who has a account on coinbase can't open or can't hold one full Bitcoin pretty shocking I have I wasn't around when coinbase first launched came around about a year and a half or so after that but I remember buying my first coin be Pitt coins on coin Basin circle and the fact that everyone can't I want a full Bitcoin now is just it kind of surreal honestly a little bit of a a warning that gotta buy as much as we can during this sort of accumulation bear market phase although Murad and I obviously think we have a little bit farther to drop but still still a solid bear market for accumulation and yeah coin base is just exploding I'm especially during this bear market which is an attestation to their remarkable growth in leadership seems like every day they're announcing a new significant hire and onboarding and set of new users so yes great I'll be excited to see on onboarding new users I will just had it'll be exciting to see in the next bull run whether we see that in like a couple months or a year or so how they handle sort of the transactional rush again cuz I mean obviously this latest bull run and the one before they had some had some difficulties had a little bit of a significant downtime there but I'm optimistic that they'll they'll improve so yeah oh how time flies I mean it seems like just a year or two ago everyone was complaining about how you know when everything was like a major story and you went on the coin base it would crash they seem to even prove that hopefully they'll keep up that nice of maintenance and customer service uh what do you think about the tiger aspect that this company might be investing millions into coin base so the rumor says yeah yeah I so I'm not extremely familiar with that potential potential investor in coin base but I think it's just one of many signals that I mean in my opinion coin basis inching ever closer to an IPO like I I would probably wager that they would IPO before we see the next bull run almost and Josh ol shove each car be knocked him on Twitter ran a poll that was pretty prescient a few months ago asking his followers whether they thought bit main or coinbase would be the first to successfully IPO and given the variety of current events I think the answer is pretty solidly in coin basis camp now and this recent investor is just one more signal of that I mean that's a pretty loosely held opinion in my I can't there is definitely some merit to it that we'll see quenice IPO very soon relatively soon and I think probably even before the next Bitcoin bull run well well so I mean I know Andy Hoffman yes me he's like who do you think's going to buy coin base so that's another option to them another some large corporation might come along and gobble them up we shall see a basehead coin basis hat I mean I wish I had had a chance to pull him up I know I've read articles and I know there's been chatter Columbus's obviously had multiple offers to be bought out before and it clearly said no like there's no way no one is interested in buying up coin base right now they're doing a remarkable amount of scaling especially in a bear market I have was easily don't approve with a lot of their interests in what I would consider to be some trash coins and that sort of thing but they are a remarkably efficient scalable business and I think I mean they they're just getting started so yeah well yeah last week's story was how it's gonna be they're gonna be adding so many coins eventually that's so obvious they've made that they made the process easier for that to happen but hey that's the direction they're going to go in and yeah there was earlier and I think this would be great there was a rumor that Facebook was gonna buy them that was just a rumor if that actually happened that would be huge for the space that would just be me that would get everyone involved in Bitcoin and they are both located near each other who knows what they have the same color scheme going on there too so that would be a pretty seamless integration Marad what do you think about all this coin based talk that we've just been yammering about there yes so it's a pretty interesting topic and there are sort of two diverging opinions on this on one hand I definitely don't subscribe to the camp in Bitcoin which says oh no ETFs no exchange no financialization etc I do think that the presence of more financial players more traditional exchanges even if some of them are KY seed more futures sort of more financial instruments are good for Bitcoin harder global which this article that you liked is about is a very very prominent hedge fund firm and them investing this is 500 million of growth capital is really really big for coinbase and I think this is in general is one of the symbols of despite there being a high possibility of more downfall in the short term I think there's just signals that people and Finance tiers are generally bullish like in the in the long long term and I think this is very good countering that is several issues that US bitcoiners have with coinbase in particular and with exchange business in general so as we all know some of the leadership at coinbase have in the last three years have been shifting their attention from Bitcoin unfortunately to aetherium and other health coins which is something that we don't like Bryan Armstrong unfortunately has been publicly supporting Bitcoin XT Bitcoin classic Bitcoin unlimited Bitcoin cash even at times in part and to some of the more sort of radical bit corners this seems like attack against Bitcoin it is something that is generally but not well respected and it is it is important for us to understand something and it is the following exchange businesses they Bitcoin maximalism and suddenly everybody in the world that bitcoin is likely to be the one and only winner is not something that exchanges want exchanges want more out cornering they want more uncertainty they want nos they want more speculation and so this is where the dilemma comes essentially bitcoin quickly becoming one and only global money immediately and quicker doesn't think isn't something that you will be seeing sort of traditional exchange leadership announcing and so like this is where the two sort of dichotomies come here sorry I just wanted to push back on that exchange narrative a little bit I think it's important to realize that there is sort of a break in the type of exchanges we see so coinbase obviously started off as the Bitcoin exchange that was our goal than the out of the theorem and they sort of changed the narrative a little bit and so we see they're sort of slowly evermore drifting into the by Nance and bit Mex camp of exchanges at the same time we see you're like huddle huddle and bisque and these sorts of exchanges that are focused on one particular type of coin and might support a small bucket of others but very few and very minimal support and even key storage solutions like Casa for example are supporting Bitcoin and eventually adding support for a very small number of coins based on consumer demand but there's two very different types of exchanges in the world ones that are focused on Bitcoin with an extreme emphasis placed on securing bitcoins carrying Bitcoin storage and exchange and that sort of thing and then this casino type of exchange which coinbase is slowly shifting its brand towards and I've tweeted a number of times I don't think that's good for their image I think that might cost them their shirt given their original branding but be that as it may there still scaling and growing exponentially which is good given their influence in the space but they are they are so that it they are just objectively shifting into the casino type of exchange instead of the Bitcoin centric with marginal support for alts type of exchange and we'll see how that plays out yeah yeah the more time unit needs thoughts on that the feedback for you there in two different types of exchanges all right yeah cool I'm sorry we're sure no I I definitely agree with sex points it's just that sort of we need to understand sir that the business model exchanges people not being sure about what the winner is or people not being sure about a sort of which coin we're all going to converge to or whatever people not generally being aware of what I believe are the likely monetary dynamics it's generally something that like are good for exchanges because people swapping from one asset to another shifting among themes shifting among paradigms this all translates to exchange fees right and if people just buy like a hundred thousand dollars of Bitcoin once and don't and just huddle for in seven years that's not ideal right so yeah strong hand people don't do what coinbase wants you to do you want to just hang on to that stuff that's what I say that's what I do pound that like button we're going to get to a bin a second don't worry I know eggs got stuff to say about this but I know Zac's got to leave in a second so I want to we'll get back to what we just talked about but you had great interviews act with Casa tell us about Casa because that was I thought that and I didn't link to it below but I link to it in a previous video of mine that I talked about it what are your thoughts on Casa and and the name what was the name of the guy who spoke to you there he was the guy in charge from yeah graduating from Duke that's all remember yeah yeah Jeremy Welch their founder phenomenal guy actually studied political philosophy in school and then became a front-end developer and eventually launched Casa which obviously now Elena and Jamison and a whole bunch of other people are building at right now they just announced bringing on board at crypto Springs that the conference out there in California I loved I loved Casa there they they very audaciously claim to be the best key storage solution in the world it's pretty obvious that it's true yeah if you want to listen to the interview it's the latest episode of the coin College simply got the coin pod on Twitter I think it was honestly high-quality interview in about 30 minutes we covered a huge amount of content the cool thing about cost is they have a list of several principles that guide all of their business decisions as far as how they develop products Jeremy explained that haven't made all of those principles public yet but did share two with me one of them is the sovereignty of their customers that's their number one priority is protecting this out and wealth of their customers and every product that they make and the second one sort of in tandem with that is Bitcoin first so bitcoin is which sort of Telltale's in the conversation we were just having Bitcoin is the coin that they focus on more than anything and they will like in part of their onboarding process for customers they have a short application that if you want to store other coins you mention them and they'll consider adding support in the future because obviously their profit seeking business they want to meet consumer demand but bitcoin is first they make that explicitly clear from the get-go for all their consumers and you can see that in the products that they're developing there they are they have a roadmap and so also dovetailing on the conversation we're just having Jeremy explained that he sees coming soon a day of reckoning where people significantly detract the usage their current usage from the centralized exchanges where they have no control over their coins to much more secure solutions where their interactions with centralized exchanges is much more much significantly reduced from the levels it's at right now and he said you can look at their roadmap and their product roadmap in almost pinpoint to the day when that sort of day of reckoning will happen which is also a pretty bold claim but pretty fun to think about but yeah keys to Casa is there URL they post a variety of content on Twitter and medium definitely check them out a phenomenal company and especially now with bringing on Elena I'm incredibly bullish on the things that the products they're developing I got one of their plug-and-play lightning apps or lightning notes when they released them a couple months ago and I'm excited to get that and test it out just a phenomenal company so and I know some of their their VC backers as well I think they're they're based to to do great things in the next three to five to ten years I'm pretty excited so yeah I love Jeremy I love Jameson I love their whole team and doing a lot of great work Bitcoin Bitcoin first Bitcoin first is what I got out of that interview – I will link to it below after this is done I'll add that on Zack I guess I'll let you you gotta go now I guess so yeah I do thanks so much for chatting this it's been a blast alright I'll see you around alright see all right now Abe Abe you're taking over now you've got a lot this you've heard a lot I'll just let you get along we've been talking about here yeah I mean a significant such a significant investment into coinbase I think can only be a good thing I mean the the world needs exchanges I mean just for a minute think that there's broadly two types of Bitcoin users you've got people that huddle and speculate and you got people to actually use Bitcoin you've got the Bitcoin butts big being a little be the protocol and the actual coin itself now the more people that use Bitcoin as a payment system which is what it was built for that drives up the price for the hot lers so having such legitimacy given to coinbase for such as investment legitimizes it brings more users in as users come in as you're using big windows you pour the price goes up so it can only be a good thing yeah I don't keep my Bitcoin on exchange some people do coinbase ultimately will become kind of a bank of the future is basically a bank already that's fine people want to keep theirs that's one thing but the fact is that legitimizes the whole whole system and that's that's great now but what do you think about this Bitcoin first concept because obviously coinbase does not have a Bitcoin first concept there there has been there listed all sorts of things there so what's and we answer this is a neutral of meat people only know Bitcoin I mean something pretty have heard of a theory am I so they may have all these other old coins on there but most people don't know what they are I mean my father owns Bitcoin up made and by áthisá know what anything else is he's not gonna he's not gonna go and buy on coin basically sees it so you know it's like a niche market there and they may enjoy people to push other things and people won't try it but ultimately having everyone most people were going to be like Bitcoin when I see you dad's that in Python buying bitcoins first and I said Bitcoin first means you buy coin first and then you go by other cryptos yeah and that's it that's another way of looking at it but I mean we're talking about Casa Casa you know set is basic sane and if you listen to the interview the guy said you know bitcoin is the one okay but then we'll do business with the others what coinbase is saying is hey work we'll do business was ever everybody this is almost the casino type of thing here and I I will have a little pushback for you the people who go to coinbase the impulsive Americans that go to a coin base they see that bitcoin is six thousand dollars I'll just get this cheaper version of Bitcoin this be cash or this light coin or this is here so there are people who want to get into crypto who just don't buy it not buy the cheaper version type there's there's no there's a little bit coin first base to them at all so I mean I I'm glad I'm glad your dad's not impulsive I just think that we need exchanges I mean I use big obvious exchanges I need to get money into an out of fear the system is full I mean your old Bitcoin as well but we need to transact around the world he's Bitcoin exchanges required and the whole users on there or liquid it is and that's the bug that's the bottom line of this whole story is that this company whether you like him or hate them is getting a lot of people throwing money at them a lot of people signing up for them and that is good for the space mu Brad would it what is your take on Bitcoin first I know what I mean you're a Bitcoin first er of course but any any elaboration on that I mean I like to say that even if someone is to sort of make the more speculative bets into out coins at least 90% at least eighty five percent of their population in Bitcoin at least and I think like its kind of crazy like the fact that Bitcoin and all the other out coins are listed in one list on market cap and dozens of these other websites makes a lot of people who aren't very experienced with the space thing that like those are comparable or those are on the same level but a lot of people even a lot of people who have been in the space for like months years they don't understand sort of the gap between midpoint and everything else in terms of sort of monetary network of the liquidity to volume etcetera it's really on a whole nother level I would argue even more so than the market cap multiple and sort of a lot of people need to consider that and as as I like to say that with neo gold the first mover is a big advantage but with sort of a smart contracts platform a first mover is a big disadvantage so to some some things we need to keep in the back of our minds actually that's a very interesting concept there something that that with new gold will be the first mover you've got a first mover advantage but with the smart contract I mean you're talking about a fearing up there that the first you don't think they have an advantage right so like that's the thing we need to look at which which what aspect or what functionality does each of these crypto assets compete on or what the strengths are right and you mean Bitcoin is first and foremost and really to me it's 95 percent about monetary policy and its credibility and yes like I think settlement one one hour around the world lightning that were uncie's ability uncensor ability to meet those all of all of those things are cool but really I firmly believe contrary to many other people that 95 percent of the factor in adoption in the next 10 to 20 years will come from the single fact that bitcoin is unprintable and that's where Bitcoin shines and that's why I referred to it as New York gold it's essentially a super gold a harder gold right while a lot of these other crypto assets which are sort of the unit of account for many of these smart contract platforms or many others are adapts and other things they compete more so on technology and competing on technology is much more difficult because like every four or five years you will have superior tech right and Bitcoin it's not competing so much on tech as it is competing on reliability liquidity and just it being trustworthy and so far I think it's doing a pretty good job of that yeah I well it's very good point you bring up there I but with the hang does the smart cut so you think aetherium is not the next aetherium you think that some one of those other competitors could overtake it the earth I think that's possible I actually things like with respect to the smart contracts network effects the theory is pretty strong but to meet all of their doesn't water because to me what matters is which one of these becomes money which one of these think ones a monetary value and I think bitcoin is 30 pounds better than at that and so my attempts my attention my attention is on Bitcoin and that particularly goes yeah yeah well in theory I fear isn't trying to be a store of value there are people out there that claim it is but my my my monetary sort of Austrian logic if if any of these things isn't trying to become a store of value and it isn't equity and it isn't that then it's worthless deception they're either a dominant money or they're not yeah there were many people they're very big for Maximus that will agree with you 100% on what you just said that before we move on any thoughts on that Abe but we're just talking about there I've got no further comment really I mean aetherium way I completely see what you mean right it was the first one out the door as a smart contract platform is concerned it can run smart contracting issue you tokens on it but it has got limitations on on the the speed and this and in terms of a monetary system there's no limit on how many or theorem that will ever be so that the point of Bitcoin is you've got a fixed supply and the value of it increases over time and there's no limits the amount of Bitcoin so that's sort of the theory and so it can't be it can't be a sort of value in that sense removed a excellent we'll wrap that one up I want to thank Josh called out for the super chat he said Adam for Fed Reserve Chairman 2020 now that that's not gonna happen but thank you and a James set up bundles create holders by default all right James thank you for the super check let's I wanna I want to talk about a Gemini getting ensured the Gemini exchange says that they're insured now if you if you put your money your crypto on their exchange I think it's a good sign that a company is a major insurance as a company is willing to exchange is willing to insure Jim and I in a sense they're saying crypto isn't as risky as we thought it was Moran did you have any thoughts on that yeah I think the insurance of sort of the the custody side of Gemini is a very very positive thing as well I was surprised the Gemini has got it if I am sure that there are some hefty premiums they would have to pay for that just YouTube this was the uncertainty of certain thick crypto asset space in general and like the difficulty in sort of following and understanding the risks I personally have some of my funds on Gemini so I was really happy about that Gemini in general has been sort of despite sort of the New York state being relatively unfriendly towards sort of the innovation in the crypto / quote-unquote blockchain space they've been doing a pretty good job and always been sort of in close contact with sort of the regulator's the insurers and other sort of the institutional side of things so I definitely think it's a good thing and I think that's a trend that will be seen with exchanges worldwide and definitely that is something that is going to appease doubters at least in part and will sort of make people feel warmer towards the space which i think is a positive I think you know all it'll bring some more traditional individual investors into the space like saying well now I can buy it on this exchange and I won't lose all there's so many people who are scared to enter the space because they things are gonna lose everything and there are no insurance they're used to some some older people or the middle but they're used to everything being assured if something goes wrong they'll get bailed out type of thing so this this gives them that reassurance but at the same time I I fear this is going to make people more comfortable with keeping their Bitcoin on exchanges and then it's just not the best idea in the world it isn't a good idea you want to control your own private key and so this is gonna take people away from that very important concept Abraham a what do you think about insurance for is it good for the space is positive development well the devil is in the detail with madam you know they've got insurance but insurance for what on what liabilities and on what conditions if they if they may have insurance but if they haven't completely complied with the requirements making a claim then if they go make a claim insurance company refuses payout and on what limits and of all thresholds they just have main announcement they've got insurance but I don't know in any level of detail what the insurance is for and it's a very it's a very good question what would happen if Jim and I was actually hacked would everybody would everybody open they're making it out there making it out that everyone would be paid because they've also they also keep reminding us and I'm link to it below their press release they're there they're also FDIC insured and I mean I don't know too much amount actual insurance to be honest with you but all I do know is from I have business insurance a place in public life but it's if they've always got limits on them so if you if they were to lose ten billion dollars worth of Bitcoin whatever then yeah sure the insurance company is all just gonna go and pay that out this kind of people are gonna get cents on the dollar so I'm just interested so what how robust is that insurance policy yes there's a very good question again III don't know but I think it is and the overarching theme though is they got insurance a big insurance company now feels that crypto isn't as risky how good of a policy it is yeah I guess so then competition comes in so another insurance company comes as well will do their insurance from lower pricing and then oh yeah that's that's a good thing it just it makes it seem like a moment makes crypto seem like a more legitimate industry which is good I mean this is this is all gonna come in time it's all the the evolution the evidence mounted about if folks had insurance in place we might be looking a very different Bitcoin ecosystem right now oh yeah I mean yeah if everybody would have been bailed out right away knows but there's no what-ifs we move on personal responsibility is the new counterculture people so if you don't worry if you don't want to worry about how good policy Gemini has like control your own private key I'll leave it at that half pound that frickin like button well one one real quick thing I want to ask what actually more I'd probably has two things you must have say about this and I don't I don't know if Abraham actually knows about this this IRRI sex thing we're talking about the financialization a big coin big financial institutions moving in remember you said it's fine that big financial institutions are moving in that's just a natural evolution of things what did you think about this IRRI sex announcement yeah so from what I've from what I understand it's poised to be a competitor to backed yeah and as most bitcoiners we really sort of like in a welcomed competition I think back which is something that a lot of people sort of place their hopes into in the coming month months as speculative and sentiment based as that may be I think back getting its own competitor is very very positive because um I think that partial equals a lot of the fears that people have about like back not being actually fully back or back engaging in some sort of rehypothecation or derivatives or just like paper claims whatever and I think that having not just one fact which is an entity of its own kind but 2 3 or 4 will make the competition in that particular niche of the space very fierce which and being honest with their customers being transparent with the industry as a whole will definitely be one of the competitive advantages and one of the competitive verticals of that sort of niche and I think in general that's very very positive yeah a competition is a good thing you so we're talking about big financial moves into the cryptocurrency space and right before the show went on you told me about this Yale situation which I kind of heard about when I woke up this morning I Yale has invested in a fun that's going to fund some crypto startups what's this about what do you know about this yeah I believe that Bloomberg just released the rumor this morning the Yale endowment has allocated some money to in upcoming crypto funko paradigm which was started by some coinbase and Sequoia people I think that's very very positive because the the leader is sort of the CIO of the Yale endowment David Swensen he's sort of been setting the rhythm for a lot of endowment and family office and big big traditional assets sort of investment models and investment Styles over the past twenty years and I think a lot of people follow in his footsteps or have been at least over the past couple of decades and if Yale who's traditionally the trendsetter in terms of allocations has invested from what we hear into the andreessen horowitz crypto fun and in the new paradigm crypto fund then I think that's generally very very positive and it's a signal for similar things to come yeah that's what not the way I'm looking at it is is this the first step of other huge endowment funds jumping in the crypt up Wow and it I mean that that's a big thing too because I hadn't heard about it down it funds messing with crypto you'd think they'd be more of a conservative type of investment thesis but that's great hey if he ELLs really doing this now I don't they're not they'd be better just buying Bitcoin I don't you know I owe all these different types of funds that buying the funds that fund companies that deal with crypto it seems like there is an unnecessary middleman I think in the long run they'd be better off just buying you know 100 million dollars worth of Bitcoin instead of buying 100 million dollar fund that's gonna fund some company but hey we'll see if we'll see in the long run we'll see in the long run with that I don't uh you know Abraham I don't know if you have any thoughts on this I didn't prep you know like that's just interesting to me to hit yeah I do it's great now maybe it is a mean the more I welcome the big boys to come into this is this is where the big boys play we'll see how it goes okay so now what I want one thing one thing I will say though is that when I hear about my futures and options and these kind of things I mean my mind was slightly starts to bubble when it comes to very complex financial instruments for me it's witchcraft is black magic and it just kind of it confuses me but it's good that these people are doing this but I don't understand it yeah yeah hang on we're getting a little bit of echo there I think on the right side well now let's move on to what's going on in South Africa and what's going on with your company and we tell tell everyone about our Sun exchange to those who are not familiar with it okay so first and foremost Sun exchange is a solar panel micro leasing market place where people anywhere in the world can buy a solar panel it gets located in to one of our solar projects here in sunny South Africa and there and B as that solar panel produces electricity is used by schools hospitals factories that they gets benefit from low cost clean electricity without having to buy the solar panels but the people who own those solar panels get paid in Bitcoin so we've now we haven't quite got 25 million users like coinbase but we have just cost a bit of a milestone we've now got at more than 10,000 users on that platform most of which have never used Bitcoin before but are now earning Bitcoin from effectively leasing solar panels to emerging markets so we think that's really positive it's basically an on-ramp for people getting into Bitcoin I'd say about 75% of our users have never ever owned a Bitcoin but now are getting it so we're basically growing the ecosystem we also allow people to spend crypto Bitcoin on buying a solar panel so I know I've got more certainty on the Sun coming up each morning band a Bitcoin price going to the moon so I personally make sure I have both own solar assets because it produces electricity with value and also in Bitcoin and our platform at least got to do that but South Africa okay so the reason why we use Bitcoin in the first place is because we really this is an emerging market a developing country the financial system here although is very good compared to the rest of Africa it's still really clunky to get money in and out of the country if I wanted to remit money outside Africa I've got to go and fill in pen and paper for going queue up in a bank bitcoin is the solution for this instantaneous global transacting Universal transnational and you just need to look at the Bitcoin price in South Africa to realize how in demand is any one time there's about 4% arbitrage on the Bitcoin price here in SA so in the price at the moment in South Africa is around six thousand eight hundred dollars a Bitcoin and that just shows that the actual demand for buying it here is is huge and I mean just also to indicate how bullish suffering there isn't Bitcoin the president of South Africa's son is just run a Bitcoin conference and he's doing his own ico and this is the president's son I mean could you imagine Donald Trump's son doing a blockchain conference and you know it wouldn't it just wouldn't happen I mean I use a kid anyway but the fact is I think just shows how how legitimate and how useful this technology is for the country and how and how much is taking off well you know I hadn't heard about he put on a conference yeah it was cool it was called unlocking unlocking blockchain Africa that must have been about four or five hundred people there so Rania he was there a quorum Brezhnev guy who founded a theory and not for telling a guy before him one of the original founders he was he was there and there's some great great as the speakers well was this this was pre late late August was it in Cape Town or Johannesburg it was in Johannesburg yeah you were there then you you were an attendant it yeah we were we're they're all so weird we're one of the leading companies in South Africa we were there presenting showing the world what bitcoin I should be useful I mean that that's ultimately what what we're all about is actually putting Bitcoin to work you know using the system food was made for so international transacting and also allowing people that have crypto wealth to actually put that to work and do good things with it I mean earning an income from repairing the developing world I don't think you'd come up with a better triple bottom line of environmental social and economic than that and people were now doing it I mean I encourage them to look at check out our website this on exchange comp we've got a project live now to solar power a college in Javas burg the target estimate returns is around at twelve twelve percent you can buy a solar panel and Bitcoin for 20 years from it well I gotta say this we met you and I met at the the first was that Africa blockchain conference in 2015 and in Cape Town and then again I saw you you can only show plenty of time since that but I saw you just that the one in Johannesburg is so much has progressed and you were traveling all around the world people were having still interesting yet your project isn't it is an interesting story they never know I was in London beginning in September at the world blockchain forum we're we respond so we're exhibiting yeah we're pushing pushing our ICO along with along with other companies but ultimately I presented and I noticed that on the build for this conference was the Royal Bank of Scotland right and anyone who's into Bitcoin knows that the Genesis block of Bitcoin has that message from the 3rd of January 2009 is like Alistair Darling charge the Exchequer bails out banks the second time and that Bank has obviously the Royal Bank of Scotland so 42 billion pounds of public money when it's a bailing out the wrong back has got at least one catalyzed Bitcoin in the first place and then they're touting how Pro blockchain they are but I basically went on stage and I get I rewrote my presentations specifically to the Rural Bank of Scotland's benefit and I pointed out that not just was big quested out to replace those kind of French institutions for those French institutions are financing fossil fuel exploration including they financed the north the key eight the Keystone XL pipeline as you're in the state's Adam you probably saw the human rights violations that went on with the Standing Rock where they're trying to build this crude oil pipeline from Frank hydraulic frackie or crude oil across the Missouri River which provides drinking water to millions that was financed by the Royal Bank of Scotland so although people who were truly into crypto trying to move away from the convention of institutions whilst brewery banks are still financing oil when people are still using oil we haven't we haven't progressed those guys are still making money out of our addiction to fossil so we've got to get into solar if you're into crypto you're going to be into solar the two worlds so beautifully aligned they're basically the same thing bitcoin is to money what solar energy is to energy so exchange links these things together oh and the Rural Bank of Scotland refused to present after I presented that they were on the bill they refused to get on stage there's everywhere Cambridge is a character this is his this is his thing you've just got some classic from him it is interesting the Royal Bank there they're trying to be in the blockchain space that is everything they make it looks like the ring be progressive and you know making strides to get into this technology but everyone knows the point in it is you don't you get rid of the middlemen you get rid of the inefficiencies in the process you know you don't want a tower block of hundreds of thousands of people plugging away and computers doing something that a protocol can do in a distributed manner that's far more secure and and more efficient and that's that's what percival bitcoin is as what's been built and that's before so I mean thanks to gonna have a role yes for making loans and things like that but ultimately they're signing their death warrant if they're really trying to develop the train systems because of the TruBlood changes it was gonna be decentralized and distributed which makes the role of a bank superfluous well unfortunately going back to what we were talking about beforehand there always are going to be people who can't control their own private keys and will demand there be crypto banks to hold their Kryptos for them and so these these banks if they just evolve a little bit and say hey well we're a custodial service now we're hold your crypto before you so many people will just let them do that even though they shouldn't it is it's a little I know it sounds weird to us hardcore crypto people that there are people that want crypto but want a bank to control their crypto but most people are collectivist most people yeah I mean it's like storing that data on the cloud you know it's not there's no such thing as a cloud it's just someone else's computer yeah if people were concerned about today's elites then don't store it on don't have Gmail don't put it on Google Drive I keep your dates to local and keep it secure but if you're happy to have your information shared in it and it be lost or someone read or steal it then so be it so it's up to these I guess the end of the day but I'll put a link to the presentation I gave in London here so people can take a look but yeah I've done a lot of traveling I'm trying to stay put in South Africa now because our now main goes solar projects on the platform we wouldn't be doing about a call the solar projects by the end of the year me send me that URL to a guy's everyone who's watching us I'll put that below all these guys are linked to below including Zack their Twitter and everything but I'll add that presentation and everything else that we talked about everybody found that like button if you can tell that aid is originally from the United Kingdom that's the accent you're hearing it no Americans you can't tell the difference I can tell the difference between the South Africa alright so sunshine there's not much Sun in the UK no well there's a give-and-take there's certain things that are good in the UK certain things that aren't too good in the South the security situation Bobo that's for another video Marad were getting back to you here because I want you to talk all about this Bitcoin market value to realize value ratio I link to the article I actually talked about it in another video of mine I've talked about the realized value before explain all this I mean everybody's familiar with the Bitcoin market cap which is everyone's familiar with the coin market cap site which popularized it to say the least and but this realized value measurement is better I think and that's who came up with that uh but signa Carter came up that and now you've got a ratio that you know relates to to Bitcoin market value and and realized value should take it explain it all from the beginning Marad oh man what's what's happening here oh you froze or did I forget his battery he haven't liked that thing he got 1% battery life yeah yeah but he came he came back God he's been back on oh no bad he's frozen there and hang on a second be a visit this is all come back I hope because this is the the subject matters is of importance well while we wait for him let's get I know some people are interested you know what's going on in South Africa a lot of we hear a lot we hear a lot of different things politically you talked about that the president's son you live in a city you live in Cape Town are they are you affected at all by what we hear about what's going on on the farms okay so that's I mean this is a really interesting topic okay so I mean for a start there's no genocide happening there's no one being murdered really this like the real murders in South Africa but it's not like there's people coming into farms and shooting people that's not happening and and raises this thing called the Landry pre pre she ation act I know I can't even pronounce the word faith is an act of rape rape rape and and that land was basically stolen in the 1920s by white settlers came in took mound of people but the point is of the land that they took for the people who were on that land it wasn't their land in the first place they came in and offset as some civilization before that so it whose land is it's not actually owns any of it it belongs to Planet Earth it doesn't belong to anybody so it's just is it's basically nonsense I mean it's basically sand tribe were there before the tribes who are now trying to take that land back this was like hundreds of years ago so it's just a cyclical nature of what goes on in the world no one person has power of no they try and take the land off the person who's got less power so it goes on but it doesn't really concern me when I go down to buy my croissants in the morning by the sea I've drink my coffee is very chilled there's no genocide happening okay but you said so that obviously that the genocide were heard word is a big word there that's it yeah whether or not does that husband their husband has been put out there people have said it and it's definitely not happening yes there yes there's there is an act to try and take back land off of people but ultimately it's going to be extended a very long period of time and legally might just be that there'll be people on earth use land but they still allowed to be there the way this relates to Bitcoin it is so the government is coming up with a way to make land ownership not as should we say solid as it was before I mean when there's that threat that you know I think I own this land but maybe now I don't own this land that creates some I guess asset turbulence and for me it is just a warning to people and hey it's great the president's son is interested in doing an icy oh that's cool for him but you and baby they'll become a blockchain nation could be my guess but if you if you're a land owner then you need some insurance I mean they can't take your bitcoins what I'm saying they could they can't say they can't say that they they can take your land I'm not saying they can't they someone can come on and say this land is now owned by somebody else but that happens in the UK if people now have repossession orders declared on them because they're going to build a bypass they could build a bridge is like I've got no choice you need to sell your land this person at this price and you get kids out I mean what was that film up remember that old guy his house refused to move in here to put balloons on his house to escape he he have a strong hand well and here's the so again it can even happen in England United Kingdom that netbook so what yeah that's why I say I know about real estate from back in my day in Baltimore and everything the big coin is such a better asset than real estate you pay taxes on real estate I mean there's a special night yeah exactly and again and then in certain countries with political turbulence they can make up new rules and take away your land so they can't do that with your big coin all right now Murad is we're out of you back oh yes you can hear me all right I don't know if you heard me give that intro but explain your ratio to everybody and what realized value is for sure so in based on Pierrot shards ideas and tone like always from point from blockchain tour info and Nick order from Castle Island ventures the latter in particular have presented a very interesting way to measure market cap on at recent Baltic honeybadger Riga 2018 conference and realized cap is different from total market cap instead of using in the last price on exchanges and multiplying that by all 17 million mined coins already what you do is you use the prices of every UTX offset that was last move and this this does many things simultaneously one thing it does is it sort of takes away the what are likely to be lost or unused coins out of the equation it also instead of essentially instead of calculating the local speculative market value it calculates like the average or the sum of the average basis points of most of the hardware's very loosely speaking it is what we believe is the more fair value and it is what usually happens that we've noticed in the sort of these bull bear cycles is that the total market cap has to return to the realized realized market cap and at the absolute lows of the bear market it usually even slightly dips below it an alternative explanation is essentially it shows whether most people whether they're losing money collectively or making money based off of the last cycle right and so right now bitcoin is like a hundred and ten billion the current realized value is 88 billion so we believe that that is it is more than like more than more than not likely that it will sort of revert back to there and sort of plateau there all right and III love this realized value I am like your ratio and you said that if the ratio is high right if the if the if the number is high then it's where are we now could use yes so if the ratio is high then it's likely that the market is a bit overvalued and if the ratio is like around 1 or slightly below 1 then that means it's likely to be undervalued or fairly valued right and right now we are at one point to around 1.2 I believe and in the past 2 cycles we've noticed that it goes it goes it dips lower although if you sort of continue the trend the the extent to which it dips is likely going to be less and less in the coming cycles and in this upcoming bottom as well but so we believe that sort of the euphoria is essentially the extreme greed at the peaks and the extreme fear at the at the bottoms is going to be less pronounced going forward which kind of makes sense because the world's understanding of Bitcoin as well as its valuation as well as of the technology as well as people's faith in it as well as the fact that the market cap is bigger so it kind of moves slower it all makes sense again I want to ask you quickly though have you applied this your ratio and the other valuation metric to all coins yes it it doesn't work on out coins as well because I believe and we believe that all coins are so speculative that these sort of fundamental monetary and usage metrics don't apply to them if anything out ones are just speculative leverage bets on Bitcoin like at-at like local local sort of peaks and troughs right and if anything this ratio often shows that alt coins are still extremely overvalued yeah well I did things let's let's zero in get off of the you guys came up with ratio I think it's a great idea I think people are gonna have to you know study it for a longer period of time to see if it does you know define when it's bitcoin is undervalued or overvalued but going to realize value I I wish there was a site and and I'm sure there will be soon just like a smart coin market cap lists all their market capitalizations which are ridiculous because it's just you can keep some of them just keep on printing and it but if there was a site that just listed all their realized values because some of these all coins when you look at their realized values they're it's nothing and you see you see that they're jokes I think it's it really calls out some of these off coins when you just just show their real eyes guys I know in the honey Baltic you know they Nick Carter and his presentation talked about I think he took out be cash or something he talked about some other coins but I wish there was a site that showed all the realized value and so do you find realized value to be the the more compelling metric and you know when compared to market cap these I do because show sort of it shows the long term collection basis of the world and the community as opposed to sort of the local price movements which are sort of best in emotion so to speak right what it does essentially takes emotion away from the equation and show sort of the long-term entries well I I hope someone comes up with a site that just shows all the coins realize values just just as coin marquee captures all the market capitalizations of all them well I do I have one question specifically for you more ad you were in some twit you said in the next 48 hours : took the entire industry you seem to be a little worried on Twitter at one point recently what was that that was a bit of a lie purpley I send up to my friend about I think three days ago but I do expect one more shot at least one more sharp drop in bits quartz price and I think it's going to happen in the next week or so and what why is this one if it just based on technicals or based on something else so it's a mixture of both the technicals and the fundamentals and sort of the OTC flows as well as the general sentiment there are several reasons why first of all like I believe a big move is coming either in either direction and sort of the reason for that is like the Bollinger Bands are extremely squeezed the some on some timeframes um the like on the daily I believe the Bollinger Bands are like on a three and year three year low volatility is extremely low volume is extremely low we are inside a symmetric triangle inside a symmetric triangle which is sort of kind of like a 50/50 or a 55/45 likelihood of a big move and sort of the nvt signal which is another metric which which is a collect collisions interpretation of louisville's work is also showing a likelihood of a very sharp move in the days to come but between bullish and bearish I'm biased towards bearishness because of several several reasons but including nvt and vm m vrv that we just described some of the hash rate stop and sort of a whole slew of technical gain and also the fact that like a lot of sort of the alt coins and the eye cos are still extreme extremely overvalued which is likely to add some downward pressures to the industry for the foreseeable future more fundamentally I think custody insurance infrastructure compliance regulatory solutions are still not quite here yet in ideal form that sort of institutions would prefer and that's why I think we still have two to three more months of sort of bearishness left all right long-term thinking people now first of all that's your tactical and sis you're gonna get on this channel you don't get that much here at all I don't but hey man if no rats here is gonna give me some type of TA you got some TA today people pound that frickin like button all right let's let's rap let's wrap this baby up Abe Cambridge any conclusionary thoughts anything that we left out anything you uh you wanted to have I just want to point out remind people that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that for Bitcoin to become successful more than it is as a creeper value is going to be used I would welcome people to use at least some of their crypto to solar power Africa through the Sun exchange go check our web site the Sun exchange calm that's my plug now the member that some South Africans are gonna they're gonna leave some comments under here he is any best said he is not a South that he is you're not a South African you are from England originally if I've been here have been a four and a half years I feel very home there is great country living is the South Africa is a land of opportunity people say that the UK and United States are but really it's not so that for curry is like there's so many issues and problems here that's opportunity you solve a problem you solve to probably get rich yes so I'm just saying there are a lot of people that haven't heard your exact take on South Africa and its influence from different I mean you are on the streets of a city right now so you yeah yeah so some people are already saying well he doesn't know what's going on on the farms or whatever and he's not I mean he's not physically there or anything like that he's giving you his perspective as as a British guy in so I tried to I travel around the country I traveled all around driven around the whole Western Cape after because you know tell out saying I've been to I've seen was going there's no warfare happening it's it's political and and it's and it gets overhyped and Fox News glamorize it and they they say about the Fox News if you hear on Fox News you know it's oh so no that's where well again this is me I bring all sorts on to the show here we got the your for the Borah liberal and the things definitely so yeah this is a bitcoinmeister reason everybody from all over the world here maybe found that freaking like button people all right Marad your conclusionary thoughts be in emotional that I like that I like that a lot I've heard that somewhere else before okay all these dudes are linked to below you can contact them tell them what you thought this show remember we do this show every Friday this weekend bitcoins on every Friday we don't know what time it'll be on next week I do know we'll be talking about another controversial country that is Anna's way love will have a abriel for Ben's Bell will definitely be on next Friday who knows who knows who else will be on but anyway I do a new show here every single day tomorrow's the Beyond Bitcoin show so anyway everybody enjoy your weekend pound that freaking like one i'm adam meister the bitcoinmeister this run can i apologize to any south africans to have had that lamb taken off them if they have had the last except I apologize I completely wrong I'm glad you got that in there I mean there is it I want to I want to go back to that there's a crossover because because people who are in the Bitcoin are not easy to state intervention usually usually so when you hear about the ultimate in state intervention possibly you know the targeting of a race of people for murder that's that's I me the complete opposite of Bitcoin in type of thing so we have this week we have this crossover interest here so that's why I you know I even we don't even usually talk about politics and stuff like this but I think we got a guy from South Africa here with us you know tell us what he see but I have all I have always pointed this out and being a walking the streets of Johannesburg you have no idea what's going on on the farms there's no cake there's just a disconnect there is a disconnect I mean you don't I mean I if there was some horrible going on on those farms and there may be I couldn't how by just walking around and most people are in the cities there so I mean it's anyway everybody have a great weekend shabbat shalom I will see you all later adding this

9 thoughts on “This week in Bitcoin- 10-5-2018- Coinbase, metrics, South Africa, insurance, ErisX”

  1. I am a proud sunex investor, (www.thesunexchange.com) world citizen (www.worldservice.org)
    and FREE man on the land under Common law of YHVH observing His (Biblical) Feasts and Sabbaths.

  2. Please Adam listen from what this guy is saying. They are no a lot of people being moved around out of their farms in South Africa 🇿🇦. If it was so, it would have been everywhere in the news media. Stop watching Fox News & listening to Donald Tramp. They don’t know the history of that country & the politics behind this thing of the land.

  3. Adam I have a lot of respect ✊ for you on what you are doing for our space. But I’m bit disappointed about every time when you talk about Africa you always try to talk Afriaca down no any positive things to say about Africa. Look every country in the world has is own problems. With all that I have Said, I still salute you for going to all these country promoting Bitcoin & self responsibility. South Africa 🇿🇦 & Africa it’s by far much better now than what it was few years ago.

  4. Interesting to hear the TA. Downward moves is possible but the the Hoffman line will likely continue to keep the price from bottoming in a classical sense. I lean towards a longer lateral movement of 5-6 months.

  5. Malema .. we are not calling for the killing of whites … yet
    https://youtu.be/a35TT9UEmQA
    Oh yeah, sign me up to invest my hard earned money in that country. No thanks!

  6. Abraham, the south african guy doesn't dare say anything about the genocide since it could hurt his business.
    I wouldn't invest in anything in South Africa. Once communist governments start seizing things, nothing is safe. Not even solar panels.

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