The Best Mobile Crypto APP – Bill Barhydt – ABRA WALLET (2.3.2019)



you okay everybody welcome back I'd like to introduce you to today's guests this is Bill Barr hide he's from Abra okay this guy's super intelligent really really great interview he's got a background and a pedigree that's built for crypto he's worked with the CIA he's worked for goldman sachs and the project that he's putting together is super impressive you're able to purchase all coins using fiat you're able to trade between fiat two crypto crypto two fiat and then multitudes of different fiat so pesos US dollar you're able to do it all with Abra okay so what Bill is going to showcase in this interview is his background he's going to talk about the Abra app he's going to talk about the market as a whole as we're in this bear market currently but also what we expect for 2019 2020 one of the most interesting parts is Bill talks about the possibility of purchasing equities with Bitcoin that to me is super fascinating and nobody else's out there is doing it so we hope you enjoy this interview and stay tuned for some great content welcome back to another episode of silver Bay capitals series on emerging projects that are going to be launching in 2019 so again for our viewers and listeners what we're going to be doing in this series is highlighting projects and individuals who are contributing to the cryptocurrency space even during this pretty horrific bear market so I have here bill bar height he is from Abra and Abra is a competitor to some of the us-based exchanges it's a service that's available on the mobile device and you can purchase crypto currencies and you can do a lot of other different things on there personally I played around with the platform I'm a huge fan because it's mobile okay we highlight that here on our podcast series everything's got to be mobile and it's one of the biggest things that's gonna help the frictionless growth of the cryptocurrency space so just from that standpoint though I love it so why don't you jump into your background a little bit and then we can get into the project itself yeah and let's come back to that mobile point because I've got some stats for you that I've heard that it'll just blow your mind but so yeah I've been I've been in the crypto cryptography space for almost 30 years I kind of parlayed that into banking and payments and now mobile banking and mobile payments to your point because it's all kind of come together over the last 10 years in particular and started abra effectively a cryptocurrency wallet and exchange platform about three years ago and I just love the space I love that it's it my vision has always been in sync with the original cyberpunk model from when I was a kid and and and I grew up with that and when I was at that scape and we worked on you know SSL and they should guess or the kind of crypto aspects of of the internet nobody really paid that much attention and now it just feels like the world is catching up to what I've been passionate about for four decades and it's just so much fun that's great that's great so you mentioned a couple things there do you want to give us a little bit more background on your professional background and you know how that helped you become the person that you are and the cryptocurrency space and helped you kind of develop such a great product yes so so I think that let me relay that to what I'm doing basically I think I feel like you know there's this this this universal tide that's led me to avril right I've had these different jobs over the years working in photography as I mentioned I was a cryptographer at the CIA where messaging systems there in the late eighties even so you need era and then in Netscape but I also worked as a quant and in doing various systems at Goldman Sachs in what they call fixed income which is mostly known as bond trading but we were doing some more sophisticated stuff and then later on in post Netscape but did a lot of work in mobile apps I actually ran a gaming company with a wallet platform attached which believed in Matt was instrumental in understanding how to build a bro and it did some work in developing markets and mobile banking and abra literally brings all of those experiences together in a way that I know that I could not have built this company correctly if I hadn't done all of those different things now in hindsight I had no idea I think he Steve Jobs has a famous quote which says you can only connect the dots by looking back and and when I connect my own dots I just I'm always amazed that somehow it's managed to get me here based on things that at the time seemed to have nothing to do with each other except they were passionate or or I was passionate about them I guess I'd say and and so while Avril is way bigger than me thank God it is a result of the fact that I was really fortunate enough to be able to do those those things which kind of converged into this really unique unique model that's great so you know it seems to me you've got the perfect pedigree kind of to build this platform and you mentioned a couple couple high-level agencies as well as professional money managers in your back so I think that's something that is lacking in the cryptocurrency space personally I see the space maturing and I see people from the more traditional background kind of emerging the Masjid alasa class so I think that you know you have a great background with the cyberpunk movement and you understand the the background of that but you also have the the pedigree professionally to kind of take it to the next level so that's kind of what a lot of people are missing I see so I appreciate that comment but I also think that innovation requires both perspectives so so look at like square right the the sorted out is that payment on goal that Jack Dorsey that's under Twitter started Jack Dorsey knew nothing about payments he didn't know a damn thing and I would claim that it was partially because he wasn't encumbered by all of the things that people who work in payments will tell you that you can't do that he was able to get that to work now that haven't been said if you look at Square today he's got a lot of people surrounding him that have a lot of experience in payments before school right and so I think innovation to some degree requires both perspectives and you know even though I'm in my fifties I tried to I try to bring that perspective of hate just because everybody else says it can't be done right and I also have a lot of experience and therefore I should be in the camp of telling you what you can't do I try to have the other perspective a lot which is okay let's figure out how to do it even though everybody's telling us we can't and it's a great point anyway it's sorry for the tangent but I think I think it's a it's healthy to have both perspectives yeah that's a really great point I think you make an excellent point there so why don't we dive right into you know the platform itself what it is give us the breakdown the 101 on abre let me give you two different perspectives in a burst is from a simple retail consumer marketing perspective what is the app what is the network to and then I'll explain for the people who are really interested in the kryptos what's really going on behind the scenes which i think is equally interesting it's actually to a different subset of your audience so from a consumer facing perspective abre is very simply a place to buy sell trade and exchange of fiat currencies and crypto currencies there are 80 assets in the app 50 fiat currencies 29 crypto currencies and 1 what we call index token the next token is kind of like an ETF but for crypto currencies an abra has a very unique we call index token that allows you to get exposure to the most of the crypto market with one purchase okay and so inside the app you can buy Bitcoin by ether by exposure to Ripple you can take your ripple and convert it to Mexican peso so you can convert your mexican pesos to euros you can convert your euros to see cash the app allows you to deposit Bitcoin litecoin Bitcoin cash and and very soon ether natively as well and then use that as the basis for converting or you can simply use your bank accounts deposit cash into the app and then convert that cash into any of the crypto currencies or any the other fiat currencies so people use abra from anything from ripples very popular it's a simple way for retail investors to buy exposure to ether ripple Manero a lot of you know alternative currencies we even have people who use opera to get exposure on the forex side so people in Venezuela who have crypto who want to store money in dollars can put the Bitcoin easily into the abre app store it as dollars with no kyc required right because we're not actually holding those funds and I'll explain how that how that works in a second but a lot of international users use a / not just for crypto investing but also for traditional forex storage and investing as well especially when they're in a highly volatile currency market like like the Argentina has Venezuela's Nigeria's of the of the world and over time our goal is to add more assets to the app I can't say too much about that but what you'll see over the next few months is that the abre app will expand to include multiple asset classes beyond just fiat currencies and cryptocurrencies but all using the same platform in the background so that's the consumer piece very simple very straightforward now in the background what Abra's built is really special ok so the app basically uses a technology that we call a synthetic asset model synthetic asset is similar to a stable coin not exactly the same thing statement coin usually means or implies not always but usually means I've got a dollar in a bank and I've got a cryptocurrency representing that dollar in the bank and I can move the cryptocurrency around and keep the dollar in place right that's that's what a tether does or you know the new tax tax will token the tax access token does in circles token etcetera etcetera they all basically use some form of smart contract to represent a dollar in a bank a buret is something a little bit different we basically use the synthetic asset model to be able to store investment exposure to any asset in the world directly on a smartphone now that's a very confusing topic to most people and you don't need to understand that to use ever right abra was architected to be very consumer friendly simple experience just like when you swipe a credit card you don't know that there's actually 19 steps going on behind the scenes and if you had to understand that nobody would swipe a credit card exactly yeah you can put that the fact that it's easy from a consumer perspective aside and talk about the synthetic asset model like I said the synthetic asset model uses Bitcoin and Bitcoin multi signature based smart contracts to effectively create synthetic assets now let me explain let me peel the way the the layers on that and explain what it means okay let's say you want to store a thousand dollars on a smart phone I mean physically on a smart phone I don't mean like when you log in to your bank and you see the balance with the money stored somewhere else I mean get the money in the phone that's an illogical concept for most people you can't put the money in the phone okay well the truth the reality is with Bitcoin you can let me explain how so if I owed you a thousand dollars and you have the Abra a pour any other crypto app I could actually send you instead of venmo or PayPal a thousand dollars to you I could actually send a thousand dollars of Bitcoin to worth a Bitcoin to your Bitcoin app and if you're holding the key on the phone like in the case of Abra or Jax or some of these other kind of non-custodial wallets right then you know then you basically can say I've been holding the money now the problem with that example is well what if the price of Bitcoin ting plummets ten minutes after I sent you the thousand dollars worth of Bitcoin you may be holding seven hundred dollars worth of Bitcoin now that's not what you signed up before you signed up for getting a thousand dollars so what if I could figure out a way to dynamically adjust the amount of Bitcoin you're holding so that if the price of Bitcoin falls so you're actually going to get more Bitcoin so that it stays worth a thousand dollars but if the price of Bitcoin goes up you're going to lose Bitcoin so that it stays worth a thousand dollars because in this example all we've said is you care about getting a thousand dollars you don't care about the underlying price of Bitcoin in that particular example right that's what abra does using Bitcoin based smart contracts so if you're holding mineiro you're actually using Bitcoin to get investment exposure to manera in the abre app if the price of mayoral goes up do you get more Bitcoin if the price of Manero goes down you actually lose Bitcoin right if you're holding a Mexican peso in the abre app it does exactly the same thing you're holding those pesos using that synthetic asset model again in our consumers the vast majority of Arkansaw our users have no idea what I just said they don't have to know but we have a lot of users who think this is super cool and believe that this is the future banking as I do if you think about it abra can now create a synthetic version of any liquid asset on the planet more or less at will and that's why I mentioned earlier that we're going to be adding more asset classes to the over time because this basically becomes an investment vehicle that's totally legal for the first time in 200 countries right abre has users all over the world and we don't know where they are in many cases because they're just depositing Bitcoin into their app and using that Bitcoin as the basis to invest in other assets right why couldn't I do that with stocks or bonds or Treasuries or even real estate our rights eventually right and and so all based upon Bitcoin now this is something that I'm going to talk about at the North American Bitcoin conference next week as to why I think bitcoin is headed to a trillion dollars if all of those assets that I just mentioned are effectively collateralized using Bitcoin right that Bitcoin has to come from somewhere so let's say that a hundred million people all of a sudden start using apps not just from abra we don't have a monopoly on this not just from abra but from other players basically start using a model based upon Bitcoin to invest in stocks and bonds money market accounts such that you're not really buying the stock but you're collateralizing investment exposure to the stock using Bitcoin okay if if we do collectively across 100 million people which is you know fraction of the planet half a trillion dollars worth of collateralized investments most consumers won't even know that that's happening to them it'll just look like they own Apple shares or Manero or Mexican pesos but there's not enough Bitcoin on planet earth right now to collateralize all those assets so what has to happen to Bitcoin in order for there to be enough Bitcoin to collateralize that assets we can't inflate Bitcoin thank God right because the rate at which is created is fixed so only one happened the price has to explode so if we're right about what we're doing whether or not endowments buy Bitcoin is irrelevant because as consumers in the background start to use Bitcoin as kind of like tcp/ip for money if that makes sense for your techies the price has to explode because there's simply not enough of those TCP packets to create the investments if you understand my analogy right so so that's why I'm so bullish on Bitcoin because one it's uniquely qualified to solve this problem of giving people investment exposure to lots of different assets using this multi signature smart contract technology again in a way that the consumer doesn't have to understand consumer doesn't know what a repo is but repo markets drive a big chunk of the economy right I'm saying that bitcoin is going to drive a big chunk of the investment economy particularly in developing markets where people don't have fidelity and eat raised like that without even knowing that they're using it and that by definition is going to drive the price higher because the liquidity of those markets is going to demand that millions of people have accessed the Bitcoin and not just for the scraps right people investing in crypto today are excited about it but that's really the scraps of investing because it gets anywhere from one to ten percent of somebody's funds I'm talking about the majority of people's investment funds I'm saying the 80 percent of your money that you want to import it into an investment right in stocks and bonds or money market accounts is actually going to in many cases be based on Bitcoin you just won't know it as a consumer because that Bitcoin is going to be used to give you investment exposure to the S&P 500 spiders or a money market account in dollars or Euros using this synthetic asset model that I'm describing and if I'm right in any way on that there is simply not enough Bitcoin out there to enable that and therefore the price has to explode and and so that's one of the reasons I'm so I'm so bullish on this model sorry for the long explanation hopefully hopefully that makes sense that was a lot to digest that was great you hit on a multitude of fantastic points there I totally agree and I'm gonna mention a competitor there I think what coinbase did and you mentioned it a couple times was allowing for a ver user friendly experience without even knowing what's going on in the background and that's what you guys are doing even more so you mentioned a couple other things there who else's is kind of embracing what you're doing this there's got to be other people out there trying to tackle this problem of using basically Bitcoin as a settlement is that kind of what you're getting at it's more like collateralized contracts or swaps but I think that in the Bitcoin world I'm not aware of anyone taking this approach in in the etherium world I think the the maker Dow folks that make die I think it's there's some similarities to what they're doing they're effectively using crypto assets to collateralize the value of the die to basically create a staple a stable asset or a stable coin they're doing it in a different way than dabber it's more but it's actually more complex than a prably they're not but that's probably the closest concept that I've seen but I think that a bros ambitions to use crypto currencies as the basis or backbone of a new type of banking system which is effectively what I was describing earlier is totally unique I have not seen another company trying to do what we're doing and to be honest it's just really complex I mean we've raised tens of millions of dollars in venture capital we have 55 people most in engineering hacking a way to build you know smart contract systems Android and iOS user experiences you know we have a trading operation to manage our risk exposure on those contracts to make sure that our customers are never at risk of losing money and and so it's not for the faint of heart and and so as a result I think that even people who do understand what we're doing know that they couldn't replicate it easily that's great I mean this this is this seems to be the basically next-level stuff that you know we see exchanges we see great mobile applications for holding and buying and selling crypto you guys are going above and beyond this to me is absolutely fascinating and are you scared of people kind of jumping on board or what's your thought I mean I'm scared of people not jumping on users and I'm thrilled about that I mean we're starting to generate revenue to create a self-sustaining business which is important too and we can't have our message just subsidizing our business forever but but I mean we need this has become a mainstream phenomenon without people having to understand and all of the complexities of what's going on behind the scenes right I mean people don't understand how complex Facebook's systems are right and I don't they don't care right so so and that's that's good I would say for the internet but that's we've evolved to that point for the average kind of you know consumer and and banking via crypto will evolve to that point over the next decade as well they were only one decade into this you know where we're probably four decades in from a consumer Internet perspective right so so it's it's a different it's a different kind of time line but I think the parallel is is that the next decade is really going to be about then the first set of services particularly financial services that make Bitcoin and aetherium in particular really useful really useful and and in most cases in a way that the average user doesn't know they're using them I think that's almost the requirement for them to become usable will be it's just like saying my favorite analogy is is for computer scientists you know if you use Netflix or Facebook you don't have to know what a tcp/ip socket is using that now if you had to know what that is you wouldn't use Netflix that would be crazy and I think that financial services via cryptocurrencies is the same thing once people are using financial services via crypto but don't know that the crypto is there then it will most likely be be useful i I couldn't agree more I think I think you hit the nail on the head right there people that people aren't interested in learning how the different wallet addresses work I think if you know the days of sending wallet – wallet transactions are going to end I think it's gonna be by email address I think it's gonna be by unique username there has to be a more user friendly way and in addition to that I think you know the idea of losing your entire investment by one typo is something that's gonna be seen ten years from now is just ludicrous so key management is another one of those things I mean you know even in the abre model we're doing an okay job of hiding the complexity of things like key management but even there we can't eliminate it completely yet we haven't figured out how I would love to because a burr is a noncustodial app and in English that means you're managing your own keys and and so I can only go so far legally in terms of helping you do that if I take your keys it's no longer a noncustodial app and I'm effectively the equivalent of a bank right and that's a problem ingly that's actually the problem that a burr was trying to solve how do I offer these services and not become a bank right but that creates user experience issues that unfortunately are still complex now fortunately we've never had a user lose any significant amount of money by losing their keys or their backup phrase but look it's inevitable that that at some point somebody may lose a little bit of money just like if you have 75 million uber drivers in 150 countries at some point some driver is going to do something bad mathematically it's not possible that doesn't happen just like mathematically if we have millions of users all managing their keys with backup phrases at some point somebody is gonna lose the key and the backup phrase we don't want that to happen we're going to great lengths to keep that from happening but we don't know how to eliminate the problem completely anyway sorry sorry to rant on that but but my point is is that there's still a lot of complexity in the user experience that we have to address to completely mask the existence of crypto and a lot of these applications that I'm very passionate that has to be solved in order to take this to the next level rancer OE okay here that's I feel like we're getting a lot of important information here so please this is your opportunity to kind of inform us I do definitely want to hit the tokens and coins that you're offering and the philosophy behind the ones that you allow on the platform can you comment on that sure so there are thirty crypto currencies I'm opening up the app right now I mean the ones that are popular for us obviously Bitcoin ether like coin ripple is particularly popular the key here part of the plan is that we offer the assets that are most liquid in the marketplace and that's a requirement for us because of how our systems work in the background it's very hard for us to offer illiquid assets and and really if we track hundreds of cryptocurrencies ERC 20 ICO tokens straight up crypto currencies some potentially that we might be considered security tokens none of which we offer in the app today and we track those assets for global trading volume trading spread you know daily trading volume market cap and a bunch of other factors to determine what really meets viable liquidity requirements to say that something is also viable for our retail consumer right and and so that's why there are 30 assets 30 is not a magic number for us if there was 75 that met those requirements we would launch 75 so effectively found I believe 29 crypto currencies that meet those requirements and that we created one which is this index tokens which is basically a mash up of the top 10 crypto currencies by market cap kind of like an ETF and so there's no more magic than that we get people coming to us all the time saying hey can I pay you to list my ICO token in the app we won't do that because again it simply has to meet the liquidity requirements and and so we would love to have more assets on the crypto side in there but there's something not liquid enough yeah and then that's the entity question so just for users who have no idea about the platform this is you're able to connect your bank account correct and you're able to basically buy all coins correct with also Bitcoin etc right so the platform supports everything from 0x augur bat which is the basic attention token Bitcoin Cardno digibind aetherium Neos like coin Mineiro of Moscow Stratos Tron verge x RP which is ripple Z cash etc etc and there's more along with 50 fiat currencies and you can simply hold any of them buy any of them or exchange between any of them with more or less one button push in the app either by depositing money from your bank accounts or depositing crypto currencies you already have into the app Bitcoin litecoin Bitcoin cash and soon ether and exchanging them for the other assets as well it's that simple that's fantastic the idea that I always strive for the idea of fiat to altcoin is going to be super key for a lot of these projects to become successful now you mentioned international users here can you describe who domestically in the u.s. is allowed to use abre and then who else outside of the US is allowed yeah so we have users in over 100 countries there's no restrictions on who can use abre outside of you know US government sanctioned territories like Iran and North Korea and chrome and places like that but other than that there's no restrictions you have users in China we have users in Africa and India and Mexico there's no restrictions and so in the u.s. about half our users deposit money via their bank half our users deposit money via crypto in Europe it's the same thing in a lot of other countries where we don't yet support bank deposits like China those users have to deposit big claims so it's very common for somebody in China now to buy Bitcoin be an OTC desk and then how's that Bitcoin into the abre app if the store is Bitcoin or use it as the basis for investing in other old coins so it's a very simple thing to do with Abra and we have people all over the world you know that that do that it's a fantastic way to use Abra I actually predict that what you'll see over the next year with Abra is that people will not only be buying alt coins to be a Bitcoin it'll actually be buying stocks and bonds and their assets be a Bitcoin which is pretty damn cool that's that's incredible yeah so that's my prediction and and so to your point about international I think Abra is fantastic for the u.s. user we actually have entire reason they're 70s using Abra a lot of investment newsletters that tell people to put 5% your income into crypto actually recommend Abra as the way to do it because to your points so easy to use but I think the International opportunity for us is equally interesting because not only are we going to be making crypto available we're gonna be using those smart contracts to get people investment exposure to almost any asset eventually that's great this I'm super excited about this project and and the people that we talk to as well are always saying how user-friendly it is so I've just logged on and I'm you know I can't believe it it's it's if you can use venmo you can use this that's what I like to tell people yeah and to that point we actually have people who use a prefer money transfer as well it could do that why not yeah I mean there's a send money function in there and you can literally send Bitcoin from your Abra app which can be received as Mexican pesos and somebody's that wrap we have a lot of Filipino users who use the money to do money transfer between the US and Philippines and then they Boursin make sure people have you send money to themselves because they have bank accounts in both countries they'll deposit the money in the US and immediately withdraw it to their bank account in the Philippines and they basically just did a free bank wire it makes sense and yeah that's the direction that we're going exactly I mean you know Apple is really created to be the future of banking and the first two killer apps are investing which is what we're talking about and and money transfer and you'll see us get into things like credits and being able to borrow against your positions and things like that later I don't want to confuse the discussion but but those are all things that need towards having a kind of a global banking service I created Abra because I wanted to have that that global venmo app that in a single ABS simple app down downloaded from the App Store I can invest in anything I can send money to anyone I can borrow instantly anywhere in the world just from a single app and it's amazing ten years after the creation of the iPhone that there isn't one single app that functions in every country that can do that the way Facebook or you know whatsapp or you know social media apps work in every country we don't have that banking app that does the same thing a lot of that is legal reasons and that's one of the beauties of cryptocurrencies you could we in the business we call legal arbitrage mm-hmm the trustless nature of crypto for whatever reason we don't have it and average goal is to create it that's that's a great way of putting it it's a global venmo and it's so much more than that I have three things that definitely want to hit for the users who are concerned about Forks airdrops and also staking is this something that you are looking to implement is this something that you support currently I know that you're in control of your own keys so can you explain your thoughts on that yeah so so the the staking is specific to cryptocurrencies that support that model we're not long with those kryptos yet and as the market evolves it will basically be a function of the liquidity issues that I mentioned earlier so if we're doing something you know with us or other assets natively that requires that we would do it in the app we haven't had those requirements yet and those assets are far enough along on the forking side that's something that we have to deal with every day so you know we we dealt with the art fork last year with Bitcoin cash and then we dealt with you know sv versus ABC and and all that nonsense and and so generally in terms of supporting the forked currency it's very much a judgment call based upon the liquidity of the new currency right so in the case of SV it's not liquid we don't trust it we're not supporting it okay now that changes it's fine it's just another asset to us another crypto asset right just along the list of the other 30 that I mentioned before but just because a couple of students over a weekend forked code-based to create a new currency I'm not going to put 20 engineers on and if the public doesn't care or want it or understand what the hell it is so I think there's a little bit of a misunderstanding that these Forks are free money they are not everything has it cost mm-hmm and so you know we look very carefully at this we also try to educate right if you look at our blog site if you go to our comm and click on blog or if you just go to a ver that blog you know we do spend a lot of time talking about this because a lot of our like I mentioned our senior citizen investors they don't know what a fork is what the f is a fork yep my spaghetti with right so so you know what am I supposed to do with that and and so explaining to people the idea that you can take money which is being inflated at a very small rate and and therefore the pie is getting bigger and all of a sudden create a parallel pie out of nothing it's not a logical concept to people who aren't in the middle of the tech and so we have to indicate we also have to explain to them that hey this is the new pie that was magically created it's so small it's not worth our time right and and so but it's also the parallel problem is the people in the tech world the developers who are passionate about their foreign currency kind of swarm on us and say well you need to enter token or we'll pay you to edit okay and we're saying well it doesn't work that way right you know there's there's hundreds of assets out there that we could be adding to the app you just created one over the weekend it's it's not going to work if it's where it's not gonna happen in the timeframe you think it's going to happen it and anyway so forked is a– is a very complex unfortunate topic that doesn't always add the value that people think it does and do I represent the free money that some people think it's us what was the third one you mentioned Forks drops yes so air drops is you know we that that kind of fools falls along the lines of kind of like I see goes and stos and that's not something that we support natively yet now we are going to be turning on native ether supports in the coming days we're testing it now totally and at that point all the pieces for a burr to support native ERC 20 tokens will be there we won't allow we won't support arbitrarily exchanging inside the app you know Bitcoin for any ICO token because those most of those ICO tokens aren't liquid but you will eventually in the coming weeks to be able to store your ERC 20 tokens can be at alright so somebody has a a new contract a or C 20 contract which is a ICO token that they want to airdrop in theory they could do that with Abra by just you know defining the rules around that the contract address and kind of like the way meta mask works in in the etherium world with a much simpler user experience that's the good thing about ever so there won't be kind of an official airdrop function inside the Abra app but you could very easily then if you've already created your ICO token do the airdrop via the Abra app in the coming weeks III don't know if that's a big deal or not but that's the end of your question so we'll see what happens that makes sense makes sense um you you gave a clear answer so that's most people can't do that so one specific question on AOS obviously there's voting for block producers and that's one of the the problems that they've been having and there's a big internal debate whether you know with whether it's collusion between block producers or it's just lack of activity on the platform and people not knowing how to vote is that something that you look to embrace as a OS if it does become more and more popular well I think it's a catch-22 because as cos becomes more popular this becomes less of an issue because the system becomes more decentralized and I think that's you have the same issue which they prove of stay group of work the more users the board centralize hopefully you seen it now a Bitcoin right I mean bit Maine's dominance is being diluted and that's fantastic for Bitcoin I don't have anything against it me and I think it's I think it's great that they were so both you know that they added so much the ecosystem in the early days but I think it's great even greater that there's more companies taking hatch power away to create a more decentralized system and I think the analogous thing will happen in the the staking world over time which will eliminate those issues and I think and I've spent time with the block one team and I really am bullish on the potential for mios over time but it's so early it's so so early it's it's it's a it's an early-stage development platform and people need to be realistic about where it is in its lifecycle it's a concept that didn't exist two years ago or was probably on a napkin two years ago and now we're sitting here talking about you know is it the future of whatever right and so I think given that bitcoins button is 10 years old you know there's like four years old we need to be realistic about how long it's going to take for those iterative technologies to become mainstream and where those issues that you're mentioning go away because it really becomes a truly decentralized system it's I would I would posit that a OS is not a truly decentralized system right now it's an early-stage development platform that will become if it's successful a decentralized network and to me a decentralized network generally means that a 51% attack is untenable for whatever reason whether it's a mistaken model or proof-of-work model that's probably the simplest kind of techie definition in my mind I know I know a lot of the purists don't like that but but that's how I look at it and at that point you know then what you're talking about is kind of a non-issue yeah I end to your point too about the the timeframes one of the things that I always think about is the fact that you know what we are investing in with these token projects and with these platforms they are essentially startups and I mean that's what they are and I think we need to be as investors in that as entrepreneurs in the space more realistic with our expectations with the projects it's it's you know the idea that they're gonna do an IC o—- they're gonna have a test net in six months and then they're gonna have a main net with 50,000 users on board within the next eight months that's totally unrealistic nobody's using this text right now that's just the reality because it's not user friendly enough the the on-ramps are not there and the technology is not built out yet but with that being said somebody's going to do it and I believe it's only a matter of time but we have to be realistic I think if you're looking for things to be perfect in the next 18 months to two years you're dead wrong I think it's gonna be three to five yeah yeah that guy I don't know the timeframe but that makes sense what you're saying and certainly the overriding point you're making make sense to me yeah yeah we've seen definitely in the community you see a lot of frustration with some of these projects that delay their main net or they you know move you know six months out that's that's the startup world that's what happens and people aren't used to that yes absolutely absolutely so the other question that I have and especially us users tax guidance I know that there's some people that are I know personally are hesitant to even enter the space because they don't understand the taxation they don't understand what what counts as a buy what counts as a sell the timing is Avril embracing that is there are some forms that they can use is there some technology that you guys are trying to implement yeah that's a great question and it's something we deal with a lot I mean we're in the early days of first of all we have customers in other countries so let me take a step back and say you know your your question is a little bit us-centric the way you asked it but but we also have to deal with this from a global perspective so last year which was our first year of being kind of July generating revenue is we made it very easy either via email or directing the app to basically get a transaction history to be able to generate your own you know capital gains you know summary for your 1099 and and that's a first step part of the challenge is is if you're depositing Bitcoin and then you're selling Manero and made money in the Monaro I don't know what you paid for that Bitcoin and and so because you didn't buy it inside the advert AB so I've never lost so I can't generate a 1099 in the Bitcoin itself does that make sense yeah totally so so the tax conversation really has to be isolated to the buys and sells you do inside of Abra and and and I can't basically know about the history of that asset that got into the app and and that's a challenge for our users because in some cases they have to know that but it's not it didn't happen inside of a burr right and that's true for any exchange I mean everybody absolutely yeah so over time and we're working on this this year and you know each year I think we'll get better at this now I'll give you the US answer we are looking at ways to make make it easier to generate those 1099s and you know tax reports and equivalents I think this year will be a little bit better than last year and next year will hopefully be even better than this year and you know we'll get better as we go and we also get user feedback on how to make it easier everybody's got a little bit of a different set of perspectives or requirements on this it's a very complex topic and but we do spend a lot of time on it and you know I think we'll get better at it over time great great so another question that I always like to ask the exchanges and services how do you guys make money and why don't you break that down for us yeah we're a little bit different because we're not in exchange we don't run an order book mm-hmm or you're basically doing what we call spot trades which is like it's kind of like when you go up to the counter at the airport and Travelex and you convert your dollars to euros or your euros back to dollars when you get home you're basically accepting a spot price from Travelex and built into that spot price is a spread between the market spot price right that they buy and sell out and the price that you paid or bought at right when you're when you're your currency and a difference is their revenue right an abra works the same way so if you use your Bitcoin to buy easy cash or ripple or xrp inheriting that transaction is a spot price and Abra is generally making a spread fee on that transaction is kind of like a convenience spread if you will there's no transaction fees in the system unlike an exchange 100% of our revenue is based upon what we call Forex spreads between any of the assets that you transact and inside of our app got it so and we try to keep those obviously as low as possible one to make up simply a fair revenue and to offset our risk on the contracts that were underwriting to give you that investments closure so in terms of projects that you would like to add to the platform can you get into any of that is their due diligence standards or red flags that you look for that kind of separate the projects that you will allow versus and ones that you say they're not ready yet yeah we're very consumer centric right we're very customer centric here so we do a lot of user surveys we talk to a lot of customers we try to figure out the timing of what we want to offer we don't want to be too early and but yet we want to create first mover advantage right in certain cases to basically get out ahead of big opportunities and so like I said we're looking at multiple asset classes inside the app using the smart contract platform we're looking at lending for the future to be able to borrow against assets inside yeah you know I mentioned money transfer so there's some things over the next few years that we want to build out to create that kind of crypto based banking platform that's very consumer friendly but we need to be careful that we're not doing things too quickly I think in general as if you put your venture capital hat on what what VCS who are successful will tell you is great teams are important and yes you're investing in people but it ultimately comes down to the timing of what they're doing it's definitely the number one success factor it actually is not people write a mediocre team with unbelievable timing will be a phenomenal team shitty timing every time from a venture return perspective now not necessary from an academic perspective so so we have to be careful given that we're spending our investors money to understand that timing issue and the timing on you know in terms of things like old coins and some of the other assets we're adding I think is very good very very good I think there's demand globally for that even even with the depressed kind of pricing in markets that's gonna be cyclical I will grow it'll still be cyclical and I think that'll be fine but like sorry long-winded answer but but again we just need to be very cognizant of the timing of all these things and we do a lot of homework we talk to a lot of users and and now in the tech side I'm very bullish on migrating some of our spawn contract platform to continue to use Bitcoin that's the asset but maybe do some of the smart contracts in in etherium that's not something that we're not doing today and we are looking at for for the future as well which should add some scalability improves availability to our platform you great I want to just switch topics a little bit what I'd like to do is I'm curious because you have such a unique background and you have an insight into the market that many other people don't obviously as a researcher I'm always looking for different opinions on the market and I have my own I'm curious what your thoughts are for the current bear market where we're headed for 2019 into 2020 and with the Bitcoin having you know do you have any thoughts there yeah I think that look in a vacuum and look what's happening with the price there's no reason why it can continue to fall I mean that's just the reality of market now I think from a macroeconomic perspective go back to what I was talking about earlier on kind of crypto collateralizing these investment contracts if uber is right it may take one year two year three years but at some point in that timeframe the price has to go up dramatically because a brick is basically pumping Bitcoin into these contracts at an ever-increasing rate at a hundred percent margin meaning that if I want to buy Apple shares eventually using Bitcoin and I buy $100 worth of Apple shares I have to put $100 with a Bitcoin into that contract and if I'm doing that for a hundred million people right that's ten billion dollars I'm doing I'm sorry hundred million dollars it's a lot of money it's certainly not in a Bitcoin to collateralize those contracts and so I think that's going to have a dramatic impact on the price of Bitcoin and potentially on the price of ether over time not in the next few weeks well I do think that in the next few weeks and months I mean the crystal ball sells says there's no rhyme or reason outside of just normal market dynamics to say hey if institutional money is looking to come in they may be waiting for a bottom or capitulation that hasn't happened yet I have no idea I really know but longer-term I don't think that matters right and so I'm very very bullish on the long term I've actually been buying myself I don't tell people what to do with their own money but but I'm not buying because I think that there's any big chance that institutional money is gonna come in in the next couple of months I really don't care what I care about is is what is the utility of Bitcoin that is going to drive the price higher and I think the biggest utility of Bitcoin that's going to drive the price higher are these derivative contracts that average creating that require Bitcoin for every single contract that's a great point and one of the things that I always think about too is personally I think that there will be countries settling oil purchases with Bitcoin that's one of my thoughts I think it's totally within the realm of possibility within the next couple years especially with what Venezuela is doing with their petro currency you know that's yeah yeah I I don't see any reason why what are your thoughts on some of the scaling solutions we've got Lightning Network but also our SK adding advanced smart contracts on top of the Bitcoin platform yeah I've always been very impressed with the RSK team and with the ambition for what they're trying to do I don't know that's a little bit of an academic perspective I don't from a business perspective I'm not really sure yet what's gonna happen there given how easy it is to do a lot of those things in solidity for example I don't know but in terms of the scaling issues I'm very bullish on second layer technologies you know what's the Casper and sharding what's happening ether as well as lightning and what's happening there and plasma and either side as well I think all that is fantastic and I'm so grateful to the open source community that is putting their own time and effort into those projects Abra would be nowhere without so we're very grateful for their efforts I do think that we need more unchange scaling in the Bitcoin world I think the way we went about it obviously with the 2x debate from a year ago obviously it was not successful and probably not a fruitful approach in hindsight but that doesn't mean that the endgame in what was trying to accomplish was wrong actually am a hundred percent convinced it was right and then even in a lightning model 1 megabyte Glocks plus segue to simply not enough and something has to give so at some point the broader community is going to in my opinion have to accept unchain scaling to get this to work which is a combination of getting lightning to work and then having that settlement layer and be able to support a larger number of settlement transactions and that's fine I think that the my gut tells me based on what I understand now if the like in case of Bitcoin core if that community is looking at this as we need more transactions to be able to settle via layer two on chain even in the lightning model and as a result one megabyte plus equity is not cutting it then yes I think that they will embrace some type of roadmap for increasing the block size and so then you'll end up with a half a happy medium between layer 2 and layer 1 I probably wouldn't do it in the order that it's happening in but I'm just one person in my opinion isn't that important and it's it's gonna happen either way at some point great that's that's I agree with a lot of what you said there either way I think in the next two to three years we're gonna look back at this time and hopefully we'll be laughing at some of the things that were done and we'll have a better a better Bitcoin in two to three years that's what I'm hoping for absolutely yeah we'll look bill um how can people get a hold of you how can people sign up do you want to give us some shoutouts on your social media sure first of all you go to abre comm from your smartphone or to download the app or just go to the app store and search for Abra it's it's wildly popular app on on both iOS and Android usually it's it's one of the top finance app so it's pretty easy to find but the Abra comm website is a fantastic blog site a lot of educational materials I'm on Twitter constantly talk to the community on at bill bar icon Twitter B I ll be a rhy DT very easy to find I'm pretty responsive there and if people want to reach out directly they can always send me e-mail bill at AFRICOM but usually a more responsive on Twitter for most of these kinds of discussions yeah great any final points that you want to get through to our viewers first of all thanks for having it I really enjoyed the discussion I think what you're doing is fantastic and you know we'd love to see the feedback from from the community on on the discussion and even keep it going absolutely so you know really really excited about the potential for for doing that great great sounds good all right we thank you Bill for your time and good luck with everything and again great product thank you very user friendly that that's about it that's all I could say it's if you you can use it with your right hand okay you can all yeah that's it and and if you can use venmo you can use Abra that's what I tell my my friends all right great thank you for your time bill thank you is wonderful thanks everyone for listening to appreciated

4 thoughts on “The Best Mobile Crypto APP – Bill Barhydt – ABRA WALLET (2.3.2019)”

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