Security Token Offering Panel – SVK Crypto, SGH Capital, Deloitte, Cointelligence, MINT, bardicredit



the lawyers in the room they love to come in and bill you and learn from you rather than advise you they always love telling you what I can't do rather than coming up with a solution where I can so and and the City of London whereby I hope to some lawyers in the room today and you guys are gonna make some really big books on this thing so stick around you might get to learn something for today I just thought of something with regards to that new investment what we can do is we can set up a time in the next week or two where you go in to their office in the West End and maybe do like a short video really looking at their overall business their team and their setup here in London and maybe talk about what they intend to do going forward with regards to implementing a blockchain component into their business Simon the head guy over there is extremely charismatic and is a real operator and I think it would be a cool bit of content because they're more in the creative fashion space I think would be a cool piece of content to to have to tell our story why we view them as a really amazing opportunity and an investment how the blockchain component will really help their business and solve a big problem that they currently have in the fashion space when it comes to authentication and also really get their story and what they have done and their vision going forward I think they'll be a really really really cool piece of content so maybe when we get back to the office well we'll plan that and we'll get that done are you around next Tuesday yes okay are you gonna come down to our event I've signed up man oh you have okay okay all right that's great we've got some really really great speakers by the way coming down yeah yeah we got come on Jennifer you're coming down okay there is a guy called Alex from azeris which is a gaming project which is looking to build out on on yasai oh and that looks really interesting really really I know I know you know I know and then we go then we have a guy called Troy from blockchain rookies who spends time dealing with a lot of enterprises coming in to basically bring them off to speed about watching so from the really basics of what is a blockchain to actually how it can be implemented at a rope enterprise level so it's going to be an interesting walkthrough and Pierce right and from radix protocol they were first spoke at our last year he rang me yesterday I was like I'd love to come down and speak as well so we might try to bring him in because his level of protocols is unreal so it's gonna be based around blockchain and what we need to know and current trends but it's going to be an open kind of I think you can say that yeah listen whatever you do right you want to do it well right there's no point doing it unless you're going to do that's Jennifer right stop there okay see you all of us guys do you have telegram the church yes I do and I'm gonna I'm gonna show you right now okay so first of all let's go s feet this is in Russian their story what shall lead them there putting your legs all right shame was was really re ok so I remember this really really informative lady enjoys yes okay okay so now you have now you have this is our group okay okay and in here you'll find you'll find me it's very nice and obviously there's a lot of infrastructure which needs to be built out and then of course we have the regulatory side of it which is I believe the biggest opportunity but also the biggest challenge because now you're looking at securities that needs to be regulated and they need to have proper care with cn AML and then of course the exchanges that they need to be only to be regulated patients need to be regulated so I think it's a step in the right direction but it's going to take it's gonna take time and yeah that's just the idea what are the incumbents gonna actually say about this new digital assets revolution what are they going to say about the tokenization of everything like how is that gonna yeah I mean it's really interesting to me I think I said when we met that that's where like real are the real world assets or existing financial assets for me right right bringing the two together it's kind of a nice it's a nice bridge between the two worlds yeah yeah but you just got to have all the parties involved in it and it's listen it is gonna go that way I just don't know if it's gonna be in one year or ten years right so you kind of got a V patient but at least there is something to report on at least there is something for me to look at and if it makes makes the world a better place with regards to t0 and transparency and lower costs then I mean we probably have something quite interesting there so we've got a really interesting panel a group of people from various facets various dimensions of what we're going to be talking about first of all I'm David plesance I've been a long time since ulting background I'm currently focused on the digital space cryptocurrency tokenization and have an investment business I'm on word of token II and this is this is an area of focus and interest for me so maybe I could start by just asking each of the panelists to make a brief introduction you you already have BIOS for our various panelists but just to start things off maybe I could just go down the table and ask each of you to make a brief introduction finally so I'm Damon Bell I'm currently a min partners I've been there about nine months primarily I'm work on traditional assets and and and currently working on traditional I says but within the business development space one of the asset types that we're looking at is this whole digital crypto blockchain technology I think vendor overlay I'm a merging partner for fgh capital we are based in California in Europe two years ago we looked into listing our group of funds on Euronext and other listed markets in Europe and we spotted the blockchain as a real opportunity to make it simple more simple and streamlined to list and make our adventure fun accessible to more people we will launch in end of q1 19 our first tokenized phone from luxembourg and from the US so we chose to work with local regulators in major venues in Europe but to be the end of q1 George Sullivan and co-founder of body credit it's a Swiss fund and our mission is to open venture capital which we think is very exciting as it costs too much much greater Orion survey of investors and we want to do it by allowing people to buy a small stake in our fund and then sell it or hold it if they like hello everyone good morning I am the founder and CEO of coint elegance we conduct data research and analysis for the crypto economy were mainly focused on I SEOs stos coins and exchanges I myself have a background as an angel investor for the last 10 years and about a year and a half ago when I were discovered blockchain crypto I understood that it's the future for all of us and I'm started to follow the industry and I understood that there's significant problems and gaps and we as a part of what we did we developed an impartial rating system for AI cos we shifted that rating system into stos because of the market change and the last thing that we're also doing is hunting down scammers everyone that is trying to scam the public there's many different types of scams we identify them and we are calling them out good morning everybody first of all thank you so much for allowing us to speak at this wonderful conference it's great to see more attention on the sto market it's been a wonderful conference very well organized and it's a real privilege to be asked to be here my name is Shane Kehoe I'm the co-founder of svk crypto spk crypto is a firm based here in London we are solely focused on cryptocurrencies and blockchain technologies we put our capital to work with regards to our fund which is a 50 million dollar fund we're in partnership with block 1 which are the guys behind the e SiO protocol we see the opportunity right now as it exists is the biggest opportunity I've seen in the last 20 years of course it's not going to happen overnight we've got a ten year view but we've never been more excited to deploy capital into this amazing space and it's wonderful to see the space becoming more mature with the evolution of the sto market great thanks everyone and with that last comment maybe we can start with some of our discussion topics so we're seeing a shift in in focus and priority from icos to sto so on maybe we could start with you and and you could give us some of your perspectives around what's the difference between icos and stos why are stos gaining in popularity so maybe we could start with you please so thank you so the first part I would say is that we're all saying that with the icos and we had a wild wild west everyone practically did anything that they want to do people asked for investments from investors without enabling the investors to have any kind of real rights we had cases where the founders were promising the moon it was very clear that they will not be able to even reach their first milestone they were raising millions tens of millions more than 100 millions dollars and more and it was very clear that one they will not be able to achieve what they're promising and to the investors are completely hopeless I think that the main change that we see from i ciose to stos is first and foremost the security of the investors to have the rights second the second part is I think that because of the change from utility tokens to security tokens and when I say change I'm talking about something that doesn't really exist at the moment or is very rare because until today no one at least not someone that I know an individual or company actually managed to prove that utility token is worthwhile there are a few projects that are looking promising to me but it's a long way before they will be able to actually achieve it or prove it as a use case the third part of the change that I see is because we know that with stos the security of banks and governments will be much better they will feel much more comfortable with that mechanism and I think that we'll allow many of the investors that did not go into blockchain encrypt until now to consider it and the last part the way that I see it is that the confidence of the public might come back to the industry might be back because there's going to be many less scams out there it's going to be much harder for them to scam the public and when I mentioned scams before we have different kind of levels of scams there are scams that are just out there trying to steal the money from the public by faking a website faking a company faking the whole team but there's other types of scams of founders line about many different factors regarding their ICO and now it will be an sto and they will have serious problems with the governments with the regulator's if they will be lying about these types of the different data that they publish to the public and just one as one example I'll give many founders that we've seen say that they raised for example 10 million dollars and more while they didn't even raise 1 million dollars just as one example another example is that many founders are putting partners on their websites claiming that they have partnerships with big 500 fortune companies such as Google Microsoft IBM and more and more while it doesn't really exist so I don't think that founders of stos will allow themselves to do these kind of things because they will definitely go to jail it's not a question so that's the general overview of how we see the shift from i ciose to stos and obviously if I had more time out there continue talking about it more thank you anyone else like to add some comments to that well in many ways it was a catch me if you can face early on the market people were kind of whitewashing utilities for for equity and now you see companies swapping utt tokens for st 4th 4k for qualified financial instrument tokens for the kind of rushing to whitewash what they've done that's sure two years ago for the most serious projects and obviously we'll see this trend going on for the next years and I agree that we truly to belong went to educate the market and to switch from a wide Wild West which you just mentioned to a restriction market where like any fashion instruments you would have to comply with local regulation and change from an investor's perspective what have you seen as some of the differences well I think they're totally different and the ico market was almost like a crowdfunding 2.0 it was a opportunity to invest if you wanted to take that level of risk and volatility into a conceptual into an experiments into a white paper which was majority of times quite poorly written remember this wasn't that prospectus from Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley every line was not okayed and verified by a by a legal representative of the firm you were getting into something that was an idea and in some cases it worked in the majority of cases it didn't and you take the risk you want returns all trees do not grow to the sky that market decoupled for obvious reasons there was no filter with regards to quality control but it had to happen and for for that reason we have matured we have looked at that space we have looked at the underlying technology which I'm really really really interested in and now we are applying that to a regulated market we're applying that to the tokenization of everything we're applying that to equities bonds fractional ownership property rights that's exciting that's very very exciting and I think when you really look at the space of where we are it's nascent right like it's it's it's right at the very early stages of course we're going to make mistakes of course we're going to think that the the industry will go in a certain way and it could pivot and but we've started and that's what's important the tech is solid we're very early stages and it's very very exciting it's gonna be interesting to see if it comes out more from the institutional type side or if it comes more out of the tech side but we've got a better way to do things but as I said there is some there are some major hurdles and I think some of my panel have talked about already the custody solutions the compliance the AML the KYC the secondary trading and we'll probably get onto all that in the legal and regulatory framework but the good news is is that we've started we have a vision and when we have a vision then we can make a decision and we can move on yeah it would seem that you know what you're describing you know the structure and the discipline coupled with the regulatory underpinning you would expect that that would give this staying power and which is which is great to see interesting thing about seventeenth-century and how people invented this great thing which was called initial public offering and people started raising money for various things from insurance which was which actually made sense to devices that was were supposed to change chicken chicken into sheeps and then it went into crazy bubbles like Mississippi bubble in France and and so on and I think there is this big fear now that I see us will just transform into something else so we're trying to call it people are trying to call it as deals now but the objective is the same to raise capital I think in many spaces especially where asses are very liquid like stock shares tokenizing them will make sense in future but maybe right now it would only make them slower or worse less liquid but for other assets for real assets the tokenization the which is really just pitching it into smaller pieces and making making it you know it's possible that that retail investors or people at large can can participate can buy a piece of something they like it's pretty profound and and really does make sense especially in close industries like private funds okay so let's let's shift to another topic and and focus the rest of our discussion on Sto so George you know perhaps we could talk a little bit about the different types of stos and the application you know whether it's real assets financial instruments funds you know maybe you could comment on the merits where you're seeing early momentum some of the trends you know is this going to be a new asset class if people focus on in terms of their investment portfolio last year and maybe the year before who came up with the with a I think very very good idea to to tokenize or represent ownership of a of a of a private fund like venture capital on blockchain and these were a couple of really great pioneers like spicy see for example and and I see that more and more people are looking into this space and are trying to do it and I think that it actually really does make a profound sense because the venture capital sector is very exciting sector and and I think that many many people would like to participate many people would like to invest in a venture capital fund who would not like to you know have a have a go at maybe only the next Facebook but at the same time it's really a domain for the for the ultra for the ultra rich for the few tycoons and I think this should be democratized it should be open to to more people and I think splitting venture capital into smaller pieces and and allowing you know broader our larger group of investors to participate is is quite profound what I also think is that venture capital and maybe this is in a way untold story it's a lot about creating the network effect and greenly the kind of community effect by by really venture capitalist is only so um is only as successful as large history Louis as many portunities you can turn down and really find and look for the best ones and I think by again by tokenizing by having a broader and larger group of investors of LPS that that are backing you you can achieve this so I think I really do believe that tokenization makes makes a strong underlying sense for for private fund sector like a venture car for example I would agree with that and certainly coming from the venture capital background like we are and we're deploying capital into the space um however the majority of meetings that I go into and it's a little bit like what I've recently seen with Jeff Bezos first million that he raised for Amazon he did 66 meetings and he raised about a million dollars at a five million dollar valuation for Amazon approximately fifty thousand dollars each and each meeting that he went into in 1995 every person asked him so what is the internet and it's unbelievable what is the internet and every meeting that I go into the amount of people that asked me so what is this thing called the blockchain and it's true so when you're looking at actually taking in LPS into your venture capital fund the majority of people out there are still and I'm talking about real capital allocators funder funds a family offices high net worth individuals and the role that we tend to take a lot of the time is educating and I think if we were to put a tokenization layer on the fund at this stage it might it might be somewhat more complexed I definitely see the advantages of it going going forward and I think it opens up the gates of the layer to detect capital it allows you to have it in smaller pieces people say liquidity although I'm not too sure how that would work because a venture capital firms certainly like ours where a closed-ended with a 7 year view so I'm not too sure how that would work with regards to secondary trading however my point being is that we are now in a situation where we are educating we're explaining we're getting people up to speed about this opportunity not everybody sees it like we do and I really like that because for me that's a that's an opportunity to be factually right and look back at the space in 10 or 20 years and have called it right our look back in 10 to 20 years and go wow that was some wild ride we were on what the hell were we thinking so it allows you to be factually right or wrong but I think history will will will look kindly on what we're doing but I think it's a little bit of early days but I love to educate and that's why I speak a crypto we do so many things for the community and I think it's really important to give back and educate we're all in this together I couldn't agree more we changed so I'm just – agree more we change blockchain is really a it's it's a it's a toxic I said because it's very an it's very exciting very really complex it's not it's not intuitive so it's hard to understand for people and that's why the I co bubble happened and but I think that if you want to be the bio new you have to start somewhere and I think the tokenizing something that is Wally illiquid right now he's a little bit of an improvement and that's why if you do it right and the right in the right jurisdiction according to law and rules then it's maybe the right stuff forward yeah yep I was just nice to change pace that that you know as I mentioned at the beginning I'm from a traditional brokerage and any interaction we've had it seems that the educational piece would all be done lots of yourself but some traditional methods of raising capital is still you know it's still quite appealing to those blockchain companies and I think we'll go through a phase certainly the beginning of this year and certainly into a middle of the year at least where although there's every intention to tokenize unless it ever likes a stage initial period of capital raising he's still taking some traditional measures into the traditional members if I may Edie I do agree with everything that's being said it's not so common actually but I do agree I'd like to add that what we've seen with I cos is that self-regulation doesn't work yet maybe it will in the future maybe I SEOs will return there's no doubt that I SEOs are dead right now but the main a factor in my opinion is that with stos there's no doubt that we need regulation and we've been saying it all along for the last year but I do think that the regulator's have to consider the fact that if they will not take the same securities laws but will make adjustments and make them relevant for stos and I'm talking specifically about the fact that the tokenization can be a huge deal I am a big believer in the liquidity in the market and I do think that we will see in 2019 security token exchanges working properly or starting to work properly in on the right way but the regulator's have to make these adjustments otherwise it will kill the market and as mentioned before this is not supposed to be just for the rich or the tycoons this is supposed to be for the public to finally be able to take part in investment that were not possible for them before and it doesn't matter that we're shifting from i ciose to stos we have to make sure that everyone can participate at least in some way ok so let's talk about secondary trading for a few minutes Alex could you give us our thoughts around what market market requirements there are to support SGO growth you know looking at traditional versus non traditional channels what potential growth limitations we might have what sort of secondary trading needs to be needs to be in place for this to build momentum yeah Tammy to old to the points we mentioned before issuing tokens not to be traded doesn't make any sense I agree on the fact that if we if any company tries to raise capital by issuing tokens just for the sake of it without having a plan for the query it may not work and that we that would bring us back to the ICU market so secondary exchanges are critical now and there are none in vu for now I'm being very clear the very stock exchange six issued a statement five months ago stood guard the same thing it's still in the making and we don't even know when they will be operating for sure and being able to list tokens 80s in the u.s. you have a couple of them operating under a CC in America we're still very very low volumes and only two or three operations have been completed in q4 so what we see is the in exchange are critical to so the market could really mature in the coming months or years we hope it would be month and we agree that 2019 would be will bring a real change if we take the case of France where we are based there is a low coming up what pact which is one of the first low staying creating status for broker dealers and crypto assets and coo studentship this law will come in force in March and we think it will create a set of rule that other countries in the EU will replicate or in or get inspiration from we see two main challenges when setting up a secondary exchange the first is reck tech I mean we know that now crypto assets we're in the white space in some ways ESMA the European financial regulator says we don't know I mean crypto assets have no Stellar's shares bonds share the funds are financial instruments what are crypto assets so today the minimal risk we can assume is that it is a financial instrument that we feed and my fear will apply to crypto assets real estate share the funds shares of companies that being given we know that we have to submit any exchange to the MTF rules in Europe which are really heavy too heavy which gives legacy players Nasdaq Euronext maybe I see in the states with backed which was actually launched in q4 it gives them an edge in the market so you see the gassy players playing catch-up slowly and possibly bringing more equity and equity beyond rec tech if the other critical aspect how do you create the query when you start an exchange from day one you can await yours before you have the depth required to trade your tokens so you're gonna be stuck with sto talking with it with us TOS for years for what's the point so we see a real challenge in setting up the infrastructure again stos with that exchanges do not make sense for us and hopefully vu will catch up I mean there is a sandbox in the UK which is very limited and not quite public people are trying so the last interesting aspect of exchanges once they will be fed up is discovering what if smaller funds small companies we have never met who are amazing actually could list on these exchanges and you may be able to build your portfolio seamlessly on the exchange that's the first consequence of exchanges transparency and equity and obviously you could imagine if in ETF of funds ETFs of real assets down the road though I agree we are just early in the curve of a new generation of asset management half of all assets are liquid what if just a piece of that a bit of that will move to the blockchain was liquid it will open up arbitrage strategies that are unknown for now in funds companies and bond funds as well so that's where we are now and hopefully when we come back next year we'll have an exchange set up in the you.we hopeful if we consider the current asset management market in traditional assets you know realistically in any marketing people that it will tell you that you need a two-year number you need a two-year performance number to see in front of someone so this is my fun this is how I've performed so you know you would you expect it to be a shorter time span than that two-year number to create performance or would you just align it to a current model which is out there to attract investors well okay I mean we are kind of legacy venture capital fund we've been investing for that six years so we have a six tiers track record we never expected to raise capital through next year we are a green we are we have gone typical with typical investors and we trying to educate them about blockchain and the impact of deduction on our business how do we become better managers how do they get liquidy or more transparency on the investments so I agree I don't believe that you can cut Congress any funds were friends with limited track record will have a hard time raising capital and trading to their nav that's why I think at the paradox and we love innovation and groundbreaking innovation fortunately or unfortunately legacy players are going to have a say in the market in the coming month that's I think it's the right way to go I mean it's we can't really go from a green field from day one it's still finance entity irrigated finance and we tried people try to escape it there is no escape from it what we've seen just on the exchanges side we've seen a lot of movements behind the scenes some of us actually come out into the news we're seeing more positioning with almost like obviously regulated exchanges for stos and I know our checks are here today I think they're one of the sponsors which are based in London Graeme was one of the head guys over there they're doing a phenomenal job of getting launched I think in the next very short period of time we have open finance and t0 both regulated exchanges coming online we've also noticed that there has been a kind of a full-service sweet offering and when I start to see coinbase invest in to securitize and I also start to see other platforms like token soft being being invested into and parking up a coin base it's looking like they're trying to work out from the actual launch of the ico token all the way to exchange so the issuance platform joining with the exchange platform where there there can be a kyc and AML embedded into that process so therefore when you're issuing the sto that you actually have an exchange to actually launch it on and this will be important for liquidity I totally agree with our panel if you don't have an exchange to launch it on and I think that you're doing yourself a disservice in your investors but we're starting to see that kind of M&A movements and positioning within that structure and and that's very much welcome but very much at the start also you know that perhaps is a segue to another question around collaboration I mean what you mentioned there might perhaps suggest that for this to build momentum and for it to businesses need to think about collaboration so between issuers and exchanges between investment banks fund managers I mean did you see that collaboration and and alliances partnerships are going to be critical they're going to be different how do you see that playing out in terms of follow this fitting together oh absolutely that's it's a fragmented market space and in order for us to have a a platform a regulated asset class which which needs institutional capital to come into it just like we've seen in the equities and the bonds in the property market there has to be collaboration there has to be standard set there has to be the correct type of institutional type kyc and AML there needs to be the auditors the legal teams and there also needs to be from ana point of auditing which which you can't have self custody your auditor when you go out to raise capital you've already raising existing capital you have to have an auditor do your na vi's you have to have an order to step in to prove what you have nothing is more difficult than saying to some of that you have a digital token the auditor really needs to be able to talk to a third party custodian and the third party custodian needs to sign off on what tokens you currently hold and the value of those tokens for your investors so for in order for that to happen collaboration needs to need to occur so that everybody can all all have the same types of ethics and standards to move forward and I don't see any pushback on that I think everybody is in a growth and learning phase and I think everybody's open and especially the lawyers in the room they love to come in and bill you and learn from you rather than advise you they always love telling you what I can't do rather than coming up with a solution where I can so and and the City of London whereby I hope to some lawyers in the room today and you guys are gonna make some really big books on this thing so stick around you might get to learn something for today but I think it's I think it's welcomed in all series from all from you know all the professionals involved and we will find ways to to solve the problems when we all come together and actually discuss what the requirements are needed I was just gonna I I agree with rich and Alex and I think that I didn't actually know about a French regulation but it's very interesting I think that there is really starting to be a difference between countries so in some countries you really have to pay lawyers to tell you what they don't know and what they know and then there are countries like Switzerland for example which has started early and has defined quite clear guidance so in other words you can go online and download a PDF rather than call a lawyer and that's a that's a big difference so I think it's starting somewhere there so Damon could you comment on the requirements to facilitate institutional grade infrastructure for the complete lifecycle of a transaction and you know what developments and trends you see related to institutional trading sure so as for out this panel session a lot of my fellow panelists have touched on you know we are seeing great developments we are seeing great great strides in moving forward what what would be needed to create an institutional grade environment and I'm calling a phrase from Grandma are checks tears I apologize but I'm an institutional grade a lifecycle and it you know in the traditional space we talk about the the front-to-back process and you know for me to sit in front of one of my clients and my clients will vary from investment banks and I say my clients my company's clients from investment banks all the way fruits a high net worth individuals with pension funds are like in between if I'm to talk them through the life cycle of a transaction it starts at the beginning it starts at the the exchange of the trading platform you know it starts with them understanding that members of that platform are abiding to a set of walls a set of obligations that they need to they are required by regulator it would be using technology that allows a correct surveillance and monitoring process to ensure that the trading on that platform is fair is roles and responsibilities of a certain the quiddity providers for some participants we don't have a second phase which would be clearing a settlement and we're probably a stage where the clearance and one for the tokenized essays is probably has greater security than the account methods for traditional assets and in non exchange-traded instruments such as a bond or so so that's already in place but then you get a third step which would be safe keep in custody and again we've touched on it down the panel and there are plans for new entrants to becoming amplifon surveillance we Switzerland announced two three weeks ago that they was gonna be making a an offering of create and offering this needs to to continue we need to see custodian of the type that the world's biggest pension funds are familiar with are used to looking after their assets you know that's all very well making an investment decision but to make an investment decision and not know if you're gonna get your money back or not is not really what we can encourage people to do you've then got the the again what Shane touched on you think got evaluation evaluation or fund is critical if you're gonna if you're gonna encourage people to invest in a product that will value Daly you want a reference point being fair being clear and being transparent and then it leads us all the way back to the other side of the coin which is you've got to be confident and comfortable to you own something that you can dispose of should it reach the valuation point that you set originally or that you no longer find appealing it needs a secondary market so it swings all the way back round to the trading platform to the exchange again in 2007 the world's markets when Froome if it won and decided that the exchanges had a monopoly over data over trading so they encouraged MTFs SOS sis to come into the marketplace now if you want to trade fifty thousand Vodafone you can probably do it in around about 50 plus venues at any one time so competition isn't a bad thing it's what the regulate we insisted upon ten years ago ok quite a lot happened since then but nonetheless that's what they insisted upon for traditional assets so new entrants into the markets based is on all phases of that life size our imperative as we go forward I think 2019 is my fellow panelists of all all agreed he's gonna be a big year but it's gotta be a meaningful year it can't be what we saw in 2017 and just have big numbers flashing everywhere it's gotta be quality not Conde great I think we're more or less at a time do we have time for questions or do we need to move on to the next right okay well thank you to each of you as panelists you know very interesting topic very interesting discussion lots of great perspectives and insights and I mean I think it's it's clear that what we're seeing is the creation of a lot of structure and discipline which i think is going to provide longevity and and instability and a lot of momentum so thank you all for your comments and [Applause] you

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *