Perianne Boring: Latest Crypto Currency Crash Has Not Stopped Innovation w/ Block Chain Technology

hi everyone this is Jason Barako Bull Street from E Street welcome back to another Wall Street from E Street podcast interview today's special yes is a returning guest she's founder and president of the chamber of digital commerce and about a month ago she had the the third annual DC blockchain summit parry and boring thank you for joining me again thanks Jason thanks for having me now period I really enjoyed your conference I thought it was very interesting there was a lot of good presentations there are a lot of interesting discussions but do you think that the the industry the blockchain technology industry that's emerging is at a stage now where large and painful crashes and the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency prices won't stop companies from innovating with the this new exciting technology that is blockchain technology yeah it's a good question the the queen and the virtual currency markets have always been volatile they've always been very volatile there's it's really hard to predict what's going to happen in the market and it's not a rational process either so you know something that the CEO of coin dusk in his keynote at the DC summit one of the slides that keeps coming back to me and a statement he made that that I've noted is that he's hoping that the media coverage will focus will come around and focus more on the technology and less on the price a lot of what you see the mainstream media focusing on is the price and it's funny because I get a lot of interview requests to go on different you know media channels to talk about how much Bitcoin is crashed in that day but if you take a step back when I always remind you know the reporters and people looking at this space is one we're in a very nascent technology industry of Technology is still less than 10 years old and if you actually look at the growth of the markets on a year-to-year basis not a day to day or week week or even a month of months you still are seeing growth so while the price may be down you know day over day you're every year you're saying yes houses the percentage of increases in market capitalization and so the the crash and in price or I would call it a correction I don't think that really has much bearing on the companies that are really focused on filling out blockchain technology innovations within their fur in fact I would say the price is it's really the least interesting thing you could focus on right now yeah and to add to your point Sarah I believe Bitcoin has crashed or corrected large Corrections or crashes at least four times in its history eight or nine years of over 70% so this is nothing new like you said and uh the other thing I remember is last year's conference not this year you told an anecdote where in 2012 you're trying to build up your company the chamber of digital commerce from the ground and you said in 2012 you couldn't even get any meetings with anyone that was interested in me right because the pricing crashed well not necessarily because where the price wise but when we we bought so the chamber will be four years old and I'm July so we're almost four which seems like we're a dinosaur in the blockchain industry but we're still a very young company and 2013 was when we were really starting to get the chamber organized and then we formally launched it in 2014 and we watched this organization probably in the most difficult time of this industry's history we've had much difficult times and then the time we're in right now 2013 was an exciting year because that was the year that Bitcoin started making international headlines so if you want to go back a little bit through history with me so in beginning of 2013 in the price of Bitcoin was around $13 by the summer if you remember Cyprus was going through their bailout with the European Union and there were a lot of questions on if Cyprus was going to leave in you so because of the kind of instability in the region at the time there were people in Cyprus I started buying Bitcoin and that got international news coverage and because of that the price went up almost the $1300 just through that kind of media hype cycle that was happening at the time so you saw this huge increase in price and ended up correcting quite a bit so that was exciting but despite that there was also some not-so-great things we were seeing in the media as well we had the Mount GOx collapse where 500 million dollars worth of Bitcoin of customer funds gone missing lost and he also had the Silk Road issue where very highly publicized website that was selling illegal drugs for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and and then you also had the Liberty Reserve scandal so there were a lot of things that were happening that the media was focused on and at that time basically anything anyone knew about Bitcoin was that either mail box or that people were buying illegal drugs with it online so the overall sentiment in Washington was fear anxiety and skepticism that kind of we really as a community had not been able to bring to the dialogue anything better so that was a big reason well one of the main reasons why we set out to establish the chamber of digital commerce because we believe this industry deserves a dedicated advocate that's helping answer those kinds of questions explaining what is going on is a legitimate concerns people have but also bringing balance to the conversation and helping highlight the positive benefits of what blockchain technology can bring to society and that's a big piece of what we do with the DC blockchain summit every year it seems like any time the topic of cryptocurrencies or Bitcoin or blockchain is talked about in Washington it's usually around concerns regulators have so whether that's something like Silk Road or no docks or today those conversations around AML issues and terrace financing or you know fraud and the securities markets you know most of the conversations are around when something goes wrong there's very few conversations that happen in Washington about when people are doing things right so the summit is our opportunity to bring our members to DC give them a whole day to talk about the great things they're doing highly the positive work and just bring a little bit of balance to the overall conversation and hopefully the DC community that members of Congress and their staff and the agencies and law enforcement folks will go home and feel a little bit more inspired spend more time researching what watching can do to benefit society rather than just focusing on the risk you actually answered one of my other questions before I even asked so I was gonna ask you that if a large percentage of regulators in govern some of these American government agencies are very anti Bitcoin anti Crips of anti cryptocurrency anti blockchain technology like the Bank of International Settlements and Chinese government or do you think that's a minority globally because you know at the conference it seemed that a lot of the American regulators have a different stance and some of these other groups I mentioned yeah and I don't think they're anti decline or blockchain I just think they're Pro control any way you talk about China I mean these are you know there are markets and their industries are highly controlled by the government so this has nothing to do with with just Bitcoin or blockchain is just the way that they approach commerce in general which is through highly centralized economic planning but there are many other countries leading countries around the world who are looking to foster blotching innovation within their borders for example the United Kingdom and there they've created a sandbox they're supporting boxing companies even the Bank of England is looking at potential benefits of blockchain technology through their monetary policy same thing in Canada there's very significant efforts underway in Canada Singapore all throughout the European Union and so while some companies may be hesitant there's others that are very welcoming and and doing everything they can to attract new companies and startups in this industry into their borders so so you would describe them a lot of these countries the United States included as more of a tax and regulate if you had to summarize like their position on it now their tax and regulate and that they see this emerging industry which is you know only a couple years old like you said as an industry that can potentially create new jobs in tax revenue I don't know if I would put the United States in that bucket the u.s. is much more complicated regulatory regime to navigate through and there's other companies that are engaging in jurisdictional arbitrage and regulatory arbitrage to compete with the US Supreme some of the activity here to enter their borders I think the u.s. one too um be friendly to blockchain but we just have a very different structure than a lot of other nations for example the way we approach regulation is through a very fragmented approach we have less than no more or no less than 12 regulators on the federal level that are looking at blockchain from the SEC to the CFTC's the IRS Venson OFAC CSTB FCC the list goes on and on in most countries are in a lot of other nations you you typically will have one regulator and so that one regulator will have some thought leadership that says we're open for business for blockchain come talk to us we'll work through whatever issues or testing parameters you need to go through to get to market well in the United States it's not that easy because there's so many different regulators and the jurisdictional borders are not always clear and a lot of those are still being defined and so one thing that we would really like to see in the United States is some some leadership that's not only addressing the concerns regulators have about blockchain but also having a vision and a path to make this work in the US yeah exactly I remember at the conference how during some of the explanations you they were talking about like how the SEC views Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies as one thing the CFTC views it as another and then there's other government regulatory agencies as well and that's only at the federal level that's not even counting the states yeah yeah so I guess I'll just give you a quick very quick tutorial on that so since then who is the money laundering overseer in the u.s. they're part they're underneath the US Department of Treasury they issued guidance in 2013 they're the first government organization or entity to act and they decided that they were going to regulate convertible virtual currency so like Bitcoin as currency and then a few months later the IRS which is also part of Treasury came out and said well we're gonna tax it like property okay and then the CFTC has determined that bitcoin is a commodity and the SEC is applying the securities laws in the blockchain space so from a current see to property to commodity security it's it's very difficult and very treacherous to have to navigate through that and actually just the past week I was in San Francisco Schreiber University and one of the members there said he was in a conversation with some entrepreneurs in the space and what they felt like was that in order to comply that is actually it's almost impossible to comply with all the regulations because you're almost certain if you're complying with one regulatory body you're probably not in compliance with another so we do have some pretty significant coordination issues and and that's something that's going to have to be addressed if we want to be a leader in blockchain in the United States yeah we've discussed this on the last interview that is frustrating with all the regulatory environment so there's a number of really popular articles going around Wall Street in the last couple months as Bitcoin and the other cryptocurrencies prices we're following another one following another of these articles just came out from a very well-respected banking analyst on Wall Street this week I send it over to you guys so many Wall Street Bitcoin and cryptocurrency bears claim that after being invented about a decade ago that blockchain technology while the technology self sounds good still has no valid use cases so how many different industries are either testing out or implementing integrating innovating with blockchain technology now and maybe you can name some of these examples for why these Wall Street Bears who are very anti cryptocurrency are wrong yeah I mean that's just nonsense I've traveled the world and with many of the world's largest companies that have very significant blockchain practices underway the the reality is this technology is less than ten years old and it takes time to build something of this magnitude so just to put that in perspective HTTP took ten years to build so the protocol that allowed us to enable email took ten years after the internet had already been incubated out of DARPA for almost twenty years so this is not something that's going to happen fast and I think your traders and people on Wall Street you know they think in seconds and milliseconds and you know more long some examples of where blushing technology has very clear use cases the first would be and financial services and in clearing and settlement Goldman Sachs investment research estimates that by implementing blockchain technology to streamline the clearing and settlement of cash securities and the capital market up to two billion dollars in the US and six billion dollars globally can be saved per year this is the report from Goldman Sachs a very similar report came from Santander reporting that banks could save anywhere between fifteen to twenty billion dollars annually by the year 2022 by implementing blockchain for back-office infrastructure costs it's very widely accepted and known and there's many studies have been published not only by financial institutions but also central banks about the benefits blockchain can bring in to back-office use cases streamlining a lot of processes that are currently overseen by intermediaries and other middle men but also implementing better systems for transparency and and cutting out a lot of the paper cuts of the way we do clearing and settlement today another good example is in insurance so some of the potential benefits of blockchain technology and the insurance industry include modernizing legacy IT systems to improve efficiency increasing automation using smart contracts you can decrease the need for manual inputs by decreasing human error by using blocks and smart contracts you can increase your cybersecurity and IT systems through improved privacy protections you can decrease fraud with transparent Ledger's and improve data sharing between parties this is coming from studies from the insurance industry including Deloitte but also b3i which is the watching insurance industry initiative that's in the European Union so it's not just new this is also the industry saying this and then the third industry that I would highlight would be blockchain in healthcare there's a lot of interoperability issues in healthcare with data silos administrative overhead at a significant amounts of inefficiencies over 15 billion worth of transactions are still done using fax machines today and health industry using blockchain technology for electronic health records can improve identity information sharing the audit ability efficiencies and provide a more patient-centered healthcare experience and this is coming from studies from the US Department of Health and Human Services and also the healthcare industry so there are many many industries that have very significant blockchain practices underway the stuff is not going to happen overnight it's going to take time but you're dealing with like its legacy IT systems that you know and realistically you're not going to be ripped out and replaced it's going to take a full production lifestyle and technology lifecycle to get new technologies implemented but I can assure you that this is underway and it is happening yeah I remember at the conference last year I don't remember him presenting this year but there was a vice president of IBM presenting last year and he said he was getting paid like about 17 hours a day to install blockchain technology software in the backend for a lot of large companies so at this year's conference there was presentations from executives there from or upper management from Microsoft from Cisco so I guess a lot of these large companies and maybe they haven't fully implemented blockchain technology yet but they are you know testing it out and they are working on ways to integrate it in this I would agree with that so would you say then that the ring the size range of companies testing out using blockchain runs the entire gamut of you know companies as large as Microsoft Facebook etc all the way down to startup and everything yeah absolutely and there's a lot of different types of companies that are looking at watching technology even just looking at the membership of the chamber we represent all those who are investing in and innovating with swatching based technologies we have about 160 member companies today and that includes some of the largest banks and financial institutions in the world like Wells Fargo and dy and BNP the CME NASDAQ at all we also represent technology companies so IBM Microsoft Cisco consultancy so the centuries of the world the Lloyd's kpmg's they all have washing and practices underway but the mass majority of our members are startup so these are small private companies really the pioneers technology innovators looking to pave the way for this new technology frontier and so it's it really affects a very wide cross wide class of stakeholders and so it's very interesting times and it's super exciting and to be able to bring together a lot of different types of people that have very dynamic conversations have you run into any industries or companies that are very like anti blockchain technology like maybe gold mining companies or credit card processing companies or some of the remittance companies like MoneyGram or Western Union so you mentioned gold mining we have a member company they're responsible gold and they're actually working with the gold industry to help implement the World Gold Council of standards around the the ethical mining of gold practices so there are some issues in the gold industry in terms of not the coal waiver like child labor also addressing like Nazi gold and other other pieces of the supply chain that do not meet the World Gold Council standards and so they're building out a supply chain where they go directly to the mine there they verify that they're meeting the standards and then they tokenize the gold all the way through its life cycle through its supply chain all the way to the manufacturer to to the retailer or wherever it's and product may be to be able to 100 percent accuracy dealing with the fate of the the end user or consumer that this gold that you are purchasing was done so in a way that means these particular standards so Washington can actually bring benefits to industries that may not be obvious through through using a distributed ledger and then in terms of industries that may be against this just three or some of the political intelligence that we have here at the chamber and the many conversations we have in the policy process there may be some hesitancy from the securities industry so we are hearing that there are people within the securities industry that are lobbying for much stricter regulations around blockchain technology and I really wish they wouldn't look at it this way I wish they would see like the gold industry has that by flipping this around in a particular way I was blockchain technology you can actually have a much more efficient and accurate and transparent process so you know there's always going to be incumbents that feel friends but hopefully they will be able to come around and be able to understand that the benefits of watching absolutely outweigh the risk of moving revenue in one area but beyond the tap into you know trillion-dollar opportunities by leveraging this technology and new areas I hope you're enjoying our interview with Perry an boring we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor do you work out routinely and eat healthy almost all the time if you eat paleo or vegan or work out routinely you may be eligible to save up to 33% off on your life insurance thanks to Health IQ health IQ is a venture capital backed Big Data technology life insurance company that offers customers life insurance at special rates by using the latest technologies for more information please go to health IQ comm /ws the number for MS that's health IQ comm /ws the number for MS that example you mentioned with the gold mine that kind of reminds me of that IBM TV commercial that we've seen where they're they're using blotching now to track diamonds basically from when they were mined to show that the diamonds that you buy maybe for an engagement ring or something like that at a jewelry store we're not conflict diamonds or blood diamonds because they can be tracked all the way through the supply chain with blocking yeah it can apply really to anything and this is something that kind of could really be attractive to you even even down to certain state producers so if you wanted to prove the authenticity of Atlantic raised salmon you could do that or a Wyoming cattle you wanted to be able to prove to your in consumer that this mean that you're buying game from the state of Wyoming or or you could apply the same concept to anything we're seeing a lot of the in the luxury goods space where knockoffs are a big issue where you would have a token that represents that product and that token would would would be with that product and you could with watching the sugared ledger technology with 100% accuracy be able to see exactly where that article came from and that it is exactly what we're selling it to you says it is you can also address things like food safety so this is something that IBM is doing with Walmart so a pretty big use case underway in terms of being able to track where certain food is coming from certain farms in other areas of the world god forbid something goes wrong you can trace back the issue back to the exact place that came from and be able to address it so think of things like Salmonella recalls where they decide to recall everything they don't know necessarily exactly what farm that came from by tracking everything on a public ledger you would have a lot more accuracy and transparency in terms of what exactly it is that is in your hands at any given time there's a lot of benefits of law chain not just in financial services but across a wide range of industries and supply chain is certainly attractive to a lot of manufacturers that's very interesting yeah there was a great presentation at the last DC blotching summit where the guy showed the history of champagne from the grapes and how the authenticity of the champagne now can be tracked using sensors where the grapes were grown and using the blockchain to track that so that would apply to your supply chain and also luxury goods yeah and everybody everybody likes champagne right so that's a fun one I enjoyed that one I do like champagne but I don't recommend playing beer pong with it but that's another story for another day well I had hiccups for 24 hours after I did on New Year's so that was yeah I learned the hard way and anyway so so in terms of you know some of these other technologies besides blockchain so at the conference they talked about Internet of and in turn up things by itself so as a libertarian it sounds invasive how you know my blender can have access to the Internet all my appliances will have accessed in the Internet but it seems that I guess watching technology or at least some companies are working on integrating blockchain technology with Internet of Things so absolutely and Internet of Things is definitely another area within technology that could very well be complemented with watching another area where we've already CMAs is smart contracts with smart contracts and that new term was coined in 1994 by Nick Szabo and by T V for our contracts and layering that on top of blockchain technology you can actually realized the whole new set of benefits ai is another one artificial intelligence by being able to use blockchain with the data set that AI requires and also another way you can leverage blockchain for other industries and much more powerful ways so yeah yes you're right about that yeah it'll be interest it'll be interesting to see I'm kind of against Internet of Things but if if blockchain is gonna provide with the the cryptography that's built in to the blockchain technology code so you know I don't want anyone hacking any of my appliances and creating like a crazy movie because today is Friday the 13th one we're recording up as a libertarian though Perry n I know you worked on the Ron Paul campaign a long while ago are you worried that blockchain technology that can be used by many governments for nefarious purposes to implement a digital government Fiat cryptocurrency is part of you know a dystopian cashless society where cash and other forms of payments are banned every transaction is tracked and taxed do you think some governments are are at least considering this or from your conversations with governments you don't think they're they're considering this at all I think that is a very bold statement I certainly hope not that is not something that keeps me up at night I believe that blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies provide an alternative to the central base monetary policy regimes and the global Fiat experiment that we're all a part of today you know since the breakdown of the Bretton Woods system and the the between the 1970s and the 1980s we've all been on these floating fiat currencies where you know the Fed and the respective central banks basically have a monopoly on money and what blockchain technology provides as an alternative where you can use something new to transact in your daily life so it's not about necessarily breaking down a particular system or attacking the Fed I think that's a little far out there but this does allow consumers to have another option and I believe in a free country that we should have the freedom to choose what we use is money whether that's something the government sponsors like the US dollar or gold or silver or something as innovative and fun and creative as Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies so I think it adds a lot to that conversation and I hope that that conversation will continue to be fostered because there are a lot of places where it make sense to use something different and we should have the freedom to be able to do that amen I completely agree about competing currencies and freedom of choice so if you want to use cash or pay with your smartphone you should have the option to do so what worries me is some of these governments are could potentially hijack the technology they haven't done it yet but I know some of these governments like the People's Bank of China and others are hiring blotching computer programmers and you know worst-case scenario that is something they're thinking of have you seen though that any that some of these companies now we're actually working on gold back crypto currencies have have any of those companies joined the chamber of digital commerce we have responsible gold which is kind of similar and it's it's tracking gold issuances and there are a handful of companies that are experimenting with with gold backed digital currency and we are looking at that pretty closely and one of our board of advisers George Gilder has actually called Bitcoin digital gold so that relationship between Bitcoin and gold for those who are a gold-bug or believe in a gold standard or who we believe in the benefits that gold can bring some monetary system a lot of those people find Bitcoin and blockchain technology also attractive because of the limited supply of Bitcoin and what you can implement with other cryptocurrencies so you have the deflation Airy activity as opposed to inflationary and so there's certainly a lot of crossover between the two yeah I agree I think gold and Bitcoin complements each other pretty well but there's a lot of people are gonna listen to this interview who are there cut it's kind of in the other camp where they're either very Pro gold and silver and anti Bitcoin and cryptocurrency or now because crypto currencies have been outperforming gold and silver they flipped so they're very Pro Bitcoin and cryptocurrency now they're anti gold and silver but I don't agree with either camp I'm kind of in-between where why do we have to hate on one or the other yeah I mean I was a gold bug before I learned about Bitcoin and I certainly can understand that and and really what I think is attractive about Bitcoin is that it has some additional attributes that gold does not provide and that is digital so for thousands and thousands of years societies have Fox the gold and silver the form of money but in a digital world we really need to innovate the way that we look at at monetary systems and one of the big challenge of gold is the security around it so that you know the security practice of gold is is locking it up and you know digital currencies provide a cyber security innovation on top of that so it's much more portable you can also transport it much more larger quantities much more easily than gold so it's I just see it as an evolution and there's some added benefits to it but you know gold and silver are also important as well yeah I think and sorry yeah yeah I am I've got a run thank you so much for having me on the call today and on your podcast so it's weird to hearing it and appreciate you coming to the summit and and for your support Jason you're welcome and keep up the great work you're doing a fantastic job there okay thank you please like this video shared with friends and family and don't forget to subscribe to The Wall Street for main street youtube channel if you have not already done so we're closing in on the 20,000 YouTube channel subscriber milestone despite you tube censorship and hopefully we'll be able to get to thirty thousand or even forty thousand YouTube channel subscribers quickly if YouTube doesn't shut down the channel if YouTube does shut down this channel remember to also sign up for The Wall Street for Mean Street email list that's on the Wall Street from Main Street calm website and will tell you where the videos are going to be uploaded instead of YouTube also if you really like the content and you decide that you want to give a one-time donation 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10 thoughts on “Perianne Boring: Latest Crypto Currency Crash Has Not Stopped Innovation w/ Block Chain Technology”

  1. Please check out and support our new sponsor, Health IQ, so these interviews can be kept free and not have to be moved behind a paywall on the Wall St for Main St website! Health IQ is a venture capital backed, big data technology, life insurance company that offers customers life insurance at special rates by using the latest technologies. For more information, please go to

  2. Something like this that makes fraud more difficult will have a rough time getting adopted by the corporate megaspinners.

  3. Good guest, but I was taken aback by the abrupt way she ended the conversation. She should have budgeted 1.5-2 hours for the interview.

  4. Bitcoin price is way too unstable to be used as a payment method by businesses. At least gold and the dollar are stable.

  5. Don't think! Don't ask questions! Don't challenge the alleged experts. NEVER doubt the holy dogma. Just spread them glorious cheeks for PT Barnum hype pushing electronic, DIGITAL FIAT crypto-currencies on the block chain, a clever bankster strategy designed for eliminating the use of cash in order to monitor, record, regulate and tax everything that the sheeple buy and sell. And if your crypto-wallet gets hacked by the Russian mafiahh… too phuckin' baaad!

    Yesss! There's always a stupid, peasant class $ucker out there praising the obsequious palaver of 'fast talkers', especially if they're "hot."

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