How to get started in Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency


hi everyone this is Steve Good and
welcome back to our next episode of the coin chat I am joined by my good friend
and entrepreneur David Nygen and today we are going to talk about how to get
started in cryptocurrency hi everyone it’s great to be back before we get
started I wanted to ask you Steve if you had a chance to find out more about
HODL and the back story with that cuz yeah fact I did I did have a look at it
it’s kind of a funny story it goes back apparently to a discussion that was
taking place on Bitcoin chat back in 2013 were apparently a forum user from
with the Japanese name Game Cubie had posted something like I am hodling and
that apparently led to a whole discussion and a rant and what have you
and in the end it’s kind of just held on I suppose you could say everyone’s kind
of chosen to keep the word hodl #HODL is trending quite strongly for
anything related to holding onto Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and then there’s a
group of people who decided to come up with an acronym for it just for fun
hold on for dear life so you could argue that I’m sure someone intended for it to
be hodling or not but that is the the backstory HODL well yeah cuz like that’s
you know that is more about it that’s that’s what I feel like I’m doing right
now right because we’ve seen some pretty pretty dramatic price changes in Bitcoin
in particular the last couple of weeks and I’m I’m just like I’m not really
sure what to do being new to this it seems like you know I could I could buy
more Bitcoin I could every sell but because I don’t have any idea what is
going on I’m not really sure if doing anything is is wise yeah so you know the
I’ve had a few people ask me that as well this is this past week on our
telegram Channel and and what what’s really interesting for me is that if you
look at the general population and you ask yourself how many people are
actually already in the coin it’s probably less than 1% of the total
population of the world it’s 1% I mean no one really knows for
sure because we don’t know who has what because everything’s anonymous but
there’s a lot of speculation about how many accounts are out there and it’s not
that many it does kind of make you think if there’s that two people already in it
but there’s a growing understanding of it an awareness of it and people are
beginning to ask the same question how do I get started where do I start then
the demand would presumably outstrip the supply since the supply is limited in
the number of coins that are out there there’s been a lot of analysis done by
various parties on CNBC I’ve read some really good articles about it some
people projecting it goes to 50,000 or a hundred thousand of course it’s all
speculative oh yeah I mean it’s crazy numbers but if you look at the supply
versus the demand the demand is continuing to increase the supply is
fixed bitcoins not going away so it would seem logical to assume that over
time it will continue to increase in value but there will be ups and downs
people will profit take and you know you have to hodl when those things happen
yeah together your question with the answer that’s that’s pretty good so you
know like if I’m if I’m in the market to buy to buy Bitcoin or a crypto
currencies in general like you know like you told me probably I don’t know two
months ago three months ago when I first started in this you know where I could
go to to get started and and so I went with coinbase but I understand that
there’s many many ways to buy live I don’t know if it’s many ways but there’s
multiple ways to buy i crypto currencies so can you elaborate for somebody yeah
it’s interesting you sort of what to do sure so where they can look yeah
absolutely so first of all there’s actually a couple of different ways to
get started I mean if you kind of break it down in terms of the things you’re
used to doing today one is you can go to ATMs the second is you could do
something online like a bank transfer and the third is you could do things
with credit card payments so for each of these different areas there are you know
ways of doing it there are a number of Bitcoin ATMs that are beginning to
spring up around the US and Europe and Asia so of course from those you can
just walk in deposit your money put it straight into your Bitcoin account or a
Bitcoin wallet that there’s the the online solutions of
which there’s not many but there’s quite it’s quite a you know there’s a number
of them out there and this is where you’re converting of course again your
fiat currency into Bitcoin for starters that’s companies like blockchain, localbitcoins.com, coinify, bitso ,coinbase Gemini all of those are different
flavors of the same thing where you can effectively wire transfer money in from
your bank account straight into your account with those providers okay so
when you say fiat cards you’re not this is not related to the Italian car no
obviously not no and if it was but everyone’s
depositing a car and getting bitcoins in exchange no so fiat currency actually
Fiat goes back to actually an old version an old meaning in Latin which
means it’s a had to do with an official order given by someone who has power
that’s where it comes from and it’s definition is an authoritative but but
arbitrary order these are the definitions from the history but
actually it’s a term that really it’s defining the fact that a government has
the right of power to create what we call a currency the term fiat has kind
of become more prevalent now today by the mere fact that we have digital
currency and we needed to distinguish the difference between what was called a
fiat currency or is called a fiat currency which are currencies that are
created by the government versus ones that have been created by the global
world which we call digital currencies and interestingly enough I did a bit of
research on this one as well just because I was curious about it recently
and it turns out that the first beginnings of fiat or printed currency
of any form started from the Yuan Dynasty in Dynasty in China a long time
ago and has just kind of evolved from there but the term fiat of course didn’t
come from China it’s just that it’s the term that was used to define the
creation of money through government that’s the the way the term has been
used or applied so I guess there’s there’s going to be a time when when
governments are going to be it’s probably coming soon
perhaps that governments are going to be issuing some sort of digital fiat
currency but I guess that’s a top for another well actually I mean we okay
I know we’re talking about what is cryptocurrency but you know it’s an
interesting thing you’ve just brought up so there are things happening already
there’s a there’s a group of Nations that’s called BRICS it’s a trading group
which refers to to Brazil Russia India South Africa China Heinrichs yeah right
a China yeah of course so I got that backwards but yeah and so
the BRICS nation have actually been for a while researching the concept of
cryptocurrency much to do with the fact that when they trade between each other
they have to convert their own local currencies into dollar and then convert
the dollar into back into their other currency and it’s not very efficient a
US dollar correct everything’s going down to USD so by creating their own
cryptocurrency called the BRICS cryptocurrency whatever the name will
finally be there there is a an initiative that they’re undergoing now
to investigate and research this as a block group of nations so that they can
actually enable trade to be more efficient between each other without
requiring the USD to be in the middle and they’d all be trading on the same
currency because it’s a currency they create amongst themselves so the
beginnings of that I’ve already started interestingly enough ah it sounds like
something that could be a potentially great opportunity for digital currency
world in general yeah I mean certainly I think we’re gonna see more of these
types of things happening I mean Sweden recently announced that they would start
accepting Bitcoin or started investigating using it as a more
mainstream currency mainly because in Sweden you’ll find that you can go
everywhere do everything with credit cards and there’s almost no cash it’s
almost a completely cashless society already so they recently said that they
would start considering Bitcoin as a valid form of currency within the
country which is kind of so this tells me I mean basically if somebody who’s
just new to this world of digital currency it’s like the next thing right
we we as just individuals probably want to get involved with this so that we can
at least have an understanding of what we might expect down the line in the
not-too-distant future with just using these currencies in our daily lives yeah
I mean there’s growing trend toward being able to use the currency I mean
it’s true to say that it’s very hard to spend
Bitcoin on its own right but you know I meant that but I did mention that
reminds me going that reminds me of that story about you know you’ve heard about
the story with the guy that in England that paid ten thousand Bitcoin for
somebody to deliver pizzas you’re kidding me seven years ago Papa John’s
pizzas they weren’t even you know it wasn’t anything special it was just at
the time there was no way apparently to really spend your Bitcoin and so this is
one bit was work very well we’ve got to go and find out now we’ve got a contact
Papa John’s and find out what did they do with the 10,000 bitcoins or is it
just an urban legend because if they’ve got the Bitcoin did they just sell it on
or was it just the delivery guy that took it it’d be great to find out if
there’s some truth to that that’s a really funny story yeah there’s there’s
some sources out there I know that if you if you google something like ten
thousand Bitcoin pizza you don’t find a number of stories about it that’s like
sources so David I you know you kind of gave me a mini assignment last week to
research HODL I mean it was sort of implied in the last podcast so here’s my
assignment for you for all of our listeners so could you go and find out
more about this Papa John’s story and see if you can find it any truth in it I
think it would be fantastic to find out what’s true and what’s urban legend on
the 10,000 Bitcoin for pizzas story yeah I think of some sources and I I’ve seen
the guy’s name so I can pull it up all right cool and maybe a you know what
maybe we could even get him on the one of the podcast that’d be even more fun
to see if we could actually get him on here and he could tell himself what
happened and we could at least give it a try yeah though I don’t know that he’d
really like talking about that because like the worst moment of anybody’s life that’s a very bad thing that happened
right you know there might have been a positive outcome from it as well that’s
why we’d love to talk with them anyway so just to kind of swing back so we
talked about ATMs we talked about depositing through a number of call them
exchanges although they’re not really that they’re sort of exchanges with
places of depositing Fiats to crypto and the third way that actually there that’s
out there that I didn’t really mention but I’ll just mention briefly now is
there’s people that are allowing you to make deposits via credit cards and
there’s one example I’ve seen called coinpayments.com and they’re using it
for transactions like on websites for buying goods and you can transact from
your fiat currency credit cards to do it getting a Bitcoin so there are a number
of different solutions out there going that direction and then flipping the
other direction there are other things you can do like transferring your
Bitcoin to credit cards and spending it as well what are some of the you know
differences or advantages or disadvantages of the ways of buying
Bitcoin that you just mentioned like transaction fees more or less in certain
ways or things more secure or the biggest the biggest challenge I see
generally is to get from fiat into you know Bitcoin as a starting point is the
most expensive the vendors charge a lot of money just across the board but once
you’re inside the crypto world to move your money or to convert your money from
one coin to another fees tend to be fairly reasonable they’re more in line
with typical transaction costs that a bank would charge you know it varies
from platform to platform but once you’re into the world of exchanges where
you’re actually you know investing buying the coins and looking to for
example some people just buy Bitcoin an hold Bitcoin other people are interested
in what’s called the alternative coins buying those coins buying the Bitcoin in
order to then buy other coins later on the the coin companies that we talked
about last week or the platforms or other coins but you know different
people have different strategies or different levels of interest in terms of
how they want to trade in Bitcoin that sort of that’s sort of shed some light
on it for me I’m into the you know I’ve gotten through that phase where I’ve got
fiat into into crypto and then you know other questions you know come to mind is
somebody again there’s basically I would say more than dipped a toe in the water
but you know I haven’t jumped in the pool entirely yet is how do you trade
like what you know what do you do as far as like how much you how much should I
put into this I mean I the way I looked at it is like I’m not putting more than
I’m willing to lose because it is a speculative investment at this stage
also it’s it still comes with all of the same questions as far as other
investment asset classes right like like how much do I buy how
do I hole right so you know the thing I find is that you know you’re absolutely
right whether you buy stocks bonds a house they all have value they all have
the potential to increase in value over time and that’s probably well I would
say it’s true for cryptocurrency as well specifically Bitcoin theory amande a few
of the more larger cap coins that have a lot of momentum they have a lot of
established credibility the the main difference with crypto right now is just
because of the fact that there is a limited supply and there’s a large
population of people out there who are did it and when the coin moves it can
move quite a lot I mean the volatility on some of the training that goes on is
pretty phenomenal I think that’ll set a level out over
time so you know really what I say to people is when you’re looking at
investing in Bitcoin as part of your investment you know like anything only
invest what you’re willing to lose it’s not like bitcoins going to go from $7000
down to zero because it’s gaining momentum more and more people are using
it it’s it’s a value that people are using and accepting for transactions
around the world but we have to always be conscious of the fact that you might
buy it it might go down 5% 10% one day and go back up the next day so you know
start small and work your way up this also reminds me of like the weather
where I went to school you know they’re like you know you don’t like the weather
oh just wait five minutes because it’s constantly changing alright so not to
say that it’s gonna be better or worse in terms of Bitcoin we think it’s going
to gradually increase in value but I mean over time yeah in between there’s
just it’s a rollercoaster yeah more so than like a solution stock at this point
and the other thing you know a lot of people ask me you know I really want to
get started but you know I can’t afford seven thousand dollars to buy a Bitcoin
how am I going to get started and I always kind of laugh when I say you know
it’s not a sharer and it works completely differently I mean Bitcoin
you can spend $100 to buy a Bitcoin you could buy two thousand dollars with the
Bitcoin you could buy pretty much whatever amount you want to buy you’re
not forced to buy a single value of one you can buy eight decimal places out for
for Bitcoin which is what most of the exchanges out there support
that’s uh more like shares of a mutual fund right you just put in how much
money you wanted great yeah they tell you how many shares you get total how
many coins yeah that’s a great example so I mean you’re right cuz if you go
into Vanguard and you have a Vanguard account you’ll see that you have decimal
points for your number of shares because it’s all being calculated out by
dividing it by a number of people by the amount of money that’s in the accounts
absolutely that’s the same way that all the cryptocurrencies work it’s there’s
nothing done on single values after having one ten or a hundred it’s all
done on decimal points and it just continued in that way you’re past the
second grade level of math you can you can do more than just whole numbers
right okay so so for for people that are thinking about getting into this they
can they can go in and and and put they define the amount of money that they
want to invest and then there’s a number of ways to to get into that what else
should they be cognizant of when they’re contemplating getting started in Bitcoin
with crypto I mean like like anything you know when you’re going to invest in
something some people are passive and they just buy and they just let it sit
there and you know we’ve heard tons of stories about people that had Bitcoin
five or six years ago some that like you know I think I meant I may have
mentioned to you the guy that had 50 bitcoins and then he lost his access to
his wallet and just private keys and he was out and can’t get the money there’s
other people who are really consciously interested in it they following it every
day they want to see what’s happening some of them are looking at stock charts
you know Bitcoin stock charts or coin charts some people are following the
news on various you know coin telegram or other news channels and it’s really I
think it’s up to the individuals everyone has their own way of wanting to
invest and trade but I think it’s always good like anything if you invest in
something it’s always good to be aware of and you know in touch with what’s
happening but you know the crypto world is moving so quickly and so there’s just
it’s evolving it’s changing it’s it’s constant it’s always good to kind of
stay in touch with what’s happening but I think everyone’s gonna kind of make
their own choice about how much they want to be involved or engaged in it to
be honest so there’s there’s a lot of news around all of these coins and
current is that we see on both the mainstream
sites and sites have popped up to provide that news specifically in this
sector or this industry but I guess because it’s moving so quickly we’re not
gonna see like a dummies book on Bitcoin or when we do see a dummies book on
Bitcoin that means like it’s probably become mainstream and and and the growth
is may be slowed down a little oh you mean like like a Bitcoin for dummies
yeah if there’s a Bitcoin for dummies book like you’re too late yeah it’s a
Bitcoin for dummies book work for all the people who didn’t buy Bitcoin when
it was ten cents which is probably all of us I think it’s too late and there’s
still no Bitcoin for dummies book if I I’m guessing here but I don’t think
there is I don’t but you know I to be honest I think the problem that we
generally find with all of crypto is though that the number of systems and
platforms that are out there to help the average person get started is still very
very small and they’re limited in many many ways in terms of the features were
used to on so many of the dimensions you know it’s that most things in tech most
things that I’ve seen in my career in my life of technology it always starts off
with a bunch of techies that have created something really cool and they
get it and the rest of us are wondering what it does and then sooner or later a
bunch of us start to figure out what it does it says oh that’s really cool but
the user interface is terrible on this thing and then it kind of progresses a
bit further and then business people start getting involved saying hey I kind
of get this but it’s not just the user interface there’s a business process and
there’s a way of using it and we could transact these ways and it always
happens the same way that I’ve seen in technology it always starts with good
techies with great ideas and and leads its way up through to becoming more
business savvy or business usable and the techies continue to stay involved as
techies but we just make the thing more usable for the general population that’s
a very common thread or trend we see and that’s what leads to like the the large
quote yeah absolutely so I think what we’re seeing right now is you’ve got a
couple of those platforms that listed before which are pretty good user
interfaces I I’ve used quite a few of them in one way or another just to try
them out they all have one thing in common which is for the purposes of
converting from fiat to crypto they’re all pretty decent platforms
they’re not cheap but they are decent platforms to get started the the next I
gotta say though going it was it was kind of a pain so I used the coinbase
you know based in the US and you know they they have a number of requirements
where it’s I think it’s called a know your customer requirement so the the
part of it is the user interface but also part of it is the reporting and
regulatory requirements which are still from what I gather pretty undefined or
not undefined but they’re not well-defined as they will be later on in
the future especially with you know a number of issues around regulations and
taxes but we don’t have to get into that but you know the process of signing up
to one of these services was like it wasn’t seamless it wasn’t flawless you
know there were a couple of times where it’s like the app I tried to do it
online first on the computer and then I had to do it with the app and then so
it’s it’s not easy yet and I think that’s what you were getting at where
it’s still early so we’re it’s still kind of on the
techie side and it’s not quite mainstream yet yeah I mean there’s
definitely still things that need to be done I mean the KYC part is really that
no your customer piece is really about more of the government influencing
asking that if people are working in crypto which they can’t track and they
can’t see then at least they they can ask these suppliers or the vendors that
are working with in crypto to just make sure they’re capturing some basic
information about who the individuals are now where that leads in the future I
don’t know because all these companies are still private companies and they
still have the right to be when you’re in crypto there’s also the possibility
of money being used for illegal ways and that’s a that’s if that causes another
set of problems because of course we don’t want it to be used for or maybe we
do want it to be used for you know buying and selling guns and arms or
laundering money but I don’t think that’s what the population wants but
that’s the there’s the positive and negative of anything right I mean you
can go around with a bag of money and hand it to people and it’s untraceable
or you can send Bitcoin to people and it’s untraceable it’s the same output
it’s just another mechanism for doing the same thing you know I think that
regardless of platform all the platforms are still trying to get to grips with
the volume of users that are coming on board and the speed in which they’re
doing so and that causes a set of problems because you have to scale your
organization to support that the systems have to be designed to support that
level of volume as well so it does create a set of challenges for I think
all the vendors that are out there trying to enable us to get into the
market so as we said we talked about the user interfaces are starting to come
online and now the processes are the next level that we have to deal with
which is what the business people start to look at for the bigger investors the
venture capitalists this experienced senior business people who are out there
having done these things before and now they start to jump in so it’s all part
of a process really of evolution just the speed in which it’s happening is so
much faster than anything in technology I’ve ever seen I mean the the in trouble
was it wondering what we’re gonna experience these these growing pains
while it’s well it’s in the build-out phase you do it every with every time a
new technology comes along I mean you know if you look at the way cloud
started and where it is today its transformed massively it wasn’t even
like this five years ago you know you couldn’t even get enough cloud computing
five years ago to run it’s something that you wanted to run and now a bank
can run massive components of their operation in cloud because the physical
capability and capacities are available that weren’t available before so it’s
good old like good old days right like when we say the good old days like those
days weren’t even the same when we look back on the euro that we’re living in
now because things are changing so rapidly from day to day that nothing’s
nothing’s staying the same and and I guess that that pace of change is just
accelerating and I think what I see is that you look at the way traditional
banking works as an example on the speed of transactions and the mechanisms that
are in place and you compare it to the way that cryptocurrency works
and send the sense of I can send you crypto it goes through a process it’s
electronic it’s validated confirmed and you receive it doing that within banking
as we talked about in the last episode it takes a lot longer and and you know
the layer is on top of crypto where companies are building platforms to
solve that it’s just a whole different game now in terms of the way that
they’re enabling things to work faster but the but the platforms are there to
enable that and that’s the difference and I think that’s
transact transformation that we’re seeing now you know I I totally agree
with you because I’ve been on the you know the consumer side of like various
banking experiences the ones that really stand out in my mind are like the things
that relate to let’s say mortgages and refinancing and stuff of that and it was
never ever not a pain I’ve done that multiple times every time it’s been a
pain and it’s always you know running over their institution or the bank it’s
it doesn’t matter like just by nature it’s a pain and I’m looking at crypto
and I’m like oh wouldn’t that be nice if we were able to just streamline a whole
bunch of these things which is what I think a big part of the development and
the applications that are going to come out come about in the next several years
is going to help address and then you know as somebody that has bought some
some Bitcoin let’s say you know and getting back to the thing about
investing in your trading respectively should I just sit tight like if I don’t
know what I’m doing but I already have something should I just sit tight and
just see where it goes more tonight the thing is great if you would you know if
you want to if you want to have some Bitcoin it doesn’t hurt to have that is
to you know balance out of portfolio I don’t think there’s anything wrong with
that I think it’s just a matter of being aware of the fact that it’s volatile
it’s going to go up and down more than you might be comfortable with but then
again we’ve seen stock market crashes like the 2008 crash in the US which was
you know scary for people in the US who had their investments and it dropped
quite a significant amount but it’s recovered since then and if you look at
then to now now it’s the markets are much higher and it’s a much more buoyant
environment and that that’s the nature of things things will go up and down so
the only thing I can say this that I say to people is hashtag h o dl it’s just
what some people are doing that’s exactly right just hold on for dear life
because you don’t know what it’s going up and down it’s like a rollercoaster
but there’s people a fact that you know there’s an interesting discussion thread
that I have seen in one of my discussion groups where people are talking about
using chat not chat bots are trading BOTS and you know the trading bots are
with a number of different trading styles there and they’re just sitting
there and they’re training for you all day long
and some guys are claiming they’re making ten or fifteen
per day other guys are claiming that they’re making 1% per day or losing
money and you know I would say one thing there’s one there’s one aspect that I’ve
seen which I’d like to just talk about just briefly I’d go slightly off-topic
but are you talked about investing and getting started I just want to share
something with with you know our listeners which i think is really
important there’s a there’s a growing trend that I’ve spotted about these
things called hips or hypes which are sort of investment vehicles but I don’t
believe any of them to be really honest vehicles where they’re claiming you’ll
get 3% per day if you have money with them they’ll give you that it returns
from Bitcoin trading I think there’s putting your money into these kind of
fake vehicles or actually using you know an automated bot where it’s legitimate
people are trying they’re trying different trading strategies or there’s
putting your money into known entities like hedge funds who are actually
legitimately trying to trade this stuff all I would say is just be aware of when
you’re starting out where you’re putting your money don’t put it into one of
these unknown vehicles do your research make sure it’s a real and valid vehicle
because a lot of these other fake vehicles that aren’t actually trading
but I’m just taking people’s money and then shutting down there’s a lot of them
out there and I really would hate to hear that any of our listeners actually
encountered anything like that because that would just make you know would
really be I feel really sad from that knowing that I’ve tried to help people
to tell them not to do that so first and foremost go to a mainstream vendor that
you know about whether it’s coinbase or Gemini or any of the others that that I
mentioned or use credit card services or use a bit Bitcoin ATM and deposit the
money you know into a wallet that way but you know or if you’re going to do it
with an investment bank or an investment manager make sure you research who they
are before you put your money in make sure you can meet them face-to-face or
get them on the phone but don’t just go to random websites and invest because
that’s not the way to get started and really this was all about how to get
started in the legitimate and in a safe way so if it sounds too good to be true
it’s too good to be true profits you choose I do and look you know like I
said bitcoin is an example it’s volatile it goes up and down and a lot of
cryptocurrencies go up and down but that’s not going to give you a
day-to-day return of 3% every single day you’re gonna be down
sometimes for you know one or two weeks you might be down 20% so you can’t
guarantee someone 3% per day even if you try to even it out because all the coins
have had days weeks or periods of time where they’ve just been down for a while
you can’t smooth that out and make it a guaranteed percent per day that’s I just
wanted to make sure I shared that with people because you know part of the the
whole thing about getting into anything that’s new is knowing where to start
making sure you start at the right places and I’m passionate about this I
don’t want people to lose their money on this I want people to make sure they
know what they’re getting into and that’s you know why we have these chats
that’s like that’s a great point and yeah what is Warren Buffett’s uh I think
I think he’s got the rules of investing like rule number one is don’t lose money
and then I think rule number two is see rule number one yeah something like that
that I was referring to there called high-yield investment programs hyi peas
and they’re typically listed as Ponzi schemes or investment scams that promise
unsustainably high returns on investment by paying previous investors with the
money invested by new investors and that’s where people get confused by is
Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme or not Bitcoin is legitimately a digital currency but
these pipes or hips would show however you pronounce it or absolutely not and
so you know I just want people to have that as a take away from this you know
chat today yes so as part of that growth growth curve right you’ve got the the
good idea then you have the good intentions and followed by they’re not
so good intentions yeah absolutely there’s always going to be scams so yeah
I guess we’re coming up on another time here for this episode Steve but you know
like this has been really interesting and I hope I hope it’s you know been a
real eye-opener for the listeners what yeah I’ve got so many questions too
right so like some of the things that we can talk about I guess in the next
episode is covered how to how to sort of look at Bitcoin or cryptos in general
and then how to some number of ways to buy it and then what about you know
keeping keeping your investment secure right no but so first yeah it’s like
store it and where to trade it so you know I think that our next episode
should be and I think this will be an exciting episode really is about
exchanges blockchain Ledger’s wallets and just all the stuff that’s kind of
the meat and bones about what makes cryptocurrency operate and work and how
to keep your wallet secure because of course people are going to say first of
all what isn’t wallet so that’s the cliffhanger what’s a wallet and we’re
gonna tell you all next week on the coin chats and I myself can’t wait to find
out so you know thank you all for listening in and until next time signing
off from Steve good and David Nygen

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