Episode 03: Charlie2X


(Magical crypto)
The best thing to do is simply to HODL What’s a young pony to do in a sea of shady ICOs? A lion’s courage can light up even the darkest of shadows Unlike the corporate suits, the whalepanda is wise A Chiken dreams about dreams about the moon, while soaring in the skies As Bitcoin sees new all-time highs
(Magical crypto) All around ya see big block heads bubble (Magical crypto)
Best thing to do is simply to HODL We’ll always buy the dip and we’ll always be the best of friends! Ricardo’s got a stronger background because of his Monero Enterprise Alliance background But you know, Charlie has been a director of engineering at Coinbase and he created Litecoin So you guys are pretty equally matched Just send your resume is over and we’ll have you guys fight it out Cool, thanks Okay, yeah Good idea Okay, well, welcome guys! It’s another early morning for me and late evening for some of the guys here And we still have So let’s start off with— It’s been in the news yesterday I know [I’m] recording this now and showing this a lot later, but There was a lot of controversy about the North American Bitcoin conference and Ricardo was obviously there Whenever there is any controversy, he’s there [Chuckles] So how do you experience it? It’s not your first time at the conference, but I’ve heard quite a lot of complaints about it So this year was just massive It was like insanely bigger than last year Last year, we were almost shoved into a corner of the facility and this year it was like sprawling over two levels and There was just an insane amount of space Last year, in the vender booth area I mean, there were maybe six booths And this year there was just every ICO and their grandma Which, I guess, was one of the main complaints was the number of ICOs there But at the same time What do you do, you know?
It’s not a technical conference So you can’t say to people that wanna have booths, that have the money, like “No, go away!” If you’ve got the money, excuse the pun then I don’t see a problem with accepting it and admitting them Letting then show their ways At the end of the day, that’s the only way to really expose the stuff, anyway Is to have them go up on stage and have robots, dust them and smoke and let people look at it and go “What?” Because if you do it any other way then what’s the point? So what was your favorite ICO? Oh man, there were so many I guess the augmented reality—virtual reality ones I have no idea what—why they need a blockchain for No one could explain to me
why they need a blockchain for They keep— But they do use a blockchain, right ? They almost pack all the buzzwords in That’s like “So what we’re doing, what we’ve developed is VR-AR goggles that offer VR as a service on the blockchain in a container, or whatever.” You know, like, let’s pack all the buzzwords in the only thing that we’re missing is AI There was also some controversy about the after-party, or something like that, in a strip club But I don’t know if it was the official after-party, or that was just some couple of people who went there, or Okay, so that was the Dash official after-party on the Saturday event It was called on their agenda as
the Dash Networking Event, sponsored by Dash So—just so there’s no confusion this was like, you know, on the Friday night was the official uhm, sorry the Thursday night was the official welcome party at the Cleveland on the Friday night was the Dash Networking event So this was— you know, like, I wrote a couple of people say “Don’t blame Dash” yadda yadda yadda At the end of the day with the “Somebody organized it and Dash was complicit” or with the “Dash organized it” is irrelevant The fact of the matter is, it was at a strip club you know like, I don’t care if people go to strip clubs Go ahead, whatever floats your boat But I think there’s some stuff that feels like appropriate, subjectively feels appropriate for a conference, like this and there’s some stuff that doesn’t and subjectively, to me, that grated me a bit because I mean, I was at a yacht party at the time and I didn’t go, so I wasn’t there personally to experience it, but I guess it just feels like I’d be trying to create a culture and an environment Where people go like “Oh, okay I went to a Bitcoin conference and there were a thousand Lambo’s parked outside and I went to a strip club as the official party” Is that the culture which I want to create? Cause that just feels like Feels like a BitConnect conference Yeah, it feels very cheap but I also saw on the website there were like at least 40 or 50 speakers listed on ICOs because there’s a separate section for ICOs and it was like a crazy amount of ICO speakers but from what I understand you also only had like 50 minutes to quickly do your talk? Your talk was great. I saw your talk. You only had a very limited amount of time it seemed Yeah, I only had 15 minutes, but then the ICO pitches had even less A lot of this stuff is really just genuinely elevator pitches I do think—again, this isn’t a technical conference, you know It’s not like Breaking Bitcoin or Scaling Bitcoin or anything like that Where you’d want to You want a year from Dave’s or whatever and at the same time, I think that people there need to be exposed to some of the interesting technical stuff Otherwise all they’re getting are ICO pitches all day long So I try to at least give them a little bit of interesting info in my talk They’re probably wondering
when you’re doing your next ICO Oh geez
[Chuckles] Can we get in on that? [Chuckles] Okay, so the next topic is actually also a very interesting one Greg Maxwell resigned as CTO of Blockstream to further develop Bitcoin privacy enhancements like Bulletproofs, and stuff like that Can anyone actually explain what Bullterproofs are? Someone? It’s when you can’t get killed by a bullet [Laughters] Okay There’s bulletproof vests and stuff that you can wear It’s when you have an armored car Yeah, that’s a bulletproof also Well, speaking of Greg Maxwell, I’m surprised it took him that long to leave Blockstream Why? It’s awesome [Snickers] Not a diss on Blockstream It’s just that I can’t imagine like how annoying it is to have to be CTO of Blockstream and deal with all this Stupid Blockstream-related stuff and still try to like code for for Bitcoin and just like crazy There’s a lot of drama Yeah! as you may have heard A lot of drama, a lot of hate Recently there was a music video I wonder if he didn’t ever fall out with What’s it? The Bilderbergs? You know like in one of their secret Illuminati meetings? Maybe you just had a fallout with them It happens all the time Now I heard that the XSE CEO requested that he was removed from his position No, but on a serious note He mentioned that there’s too many other responsibilities that came in a way of him actually developing something and that he had to focus on other sidechains that Blockstream was also working on So I think for Bitcoin itself it’s like great news I think it’s great news, I think him focusing on Confidential Transactions, Bulletproofs Snarky signatures, I think it’s great – Thanks Samson for kicking him out
– No worries Well, the price is down, so we had to do something. Right? So none of you guys can explain what Bullterproofs is? Okay? I’ll do it, okay So in Monero and in confidential transactions, which are then used on Monero Instead of displaying the amount or instead of using the amount of the transaction, you use a “commitment” And in order to make sure that you’re not raising money out of thin air There’s a little bit of commitment arithmetic where you subtract the total number or the total output commitments
minus the total input commitments The problem is that you could use a negative number to artificially create money out of thin air So, what we use is a sign called range proofs
and range proofs just prove that all the numbers, all the commitments, are positive numbers without revealing the numbers So it’s a zero knowledge proof Bulletproofs is a compact way of doing range proofs, so it represents significant cost savings Which is of course highly advantageous because range proofs are massive in and of themselves So that already is just a fantastic cost-saving And the trick that bulletproofs uses as a cost-saving mechanism was a way to get a cost-saving mechanism that can be used to do other cool privacy-related stuff too Okay, great It seems that we lost Charlie on the way Yeah, I’m still here Hey, sorry for the bad connection. I’m back Hello, Magical Crypto Friends, this is the real Charlie Lee What were we talking about again? Oh, yeah, we were talking about my true vision Litecoin Cash It’s the way Litecoin was always meant to be Remember, it’s not LCash It’s called Litecoin Cash If I hear anyone say LCash again I’m going to go full Roger Ver on you Anyways, Litecoin Cash, my true vision Again, I’m the real Charlie— Okay, it’s enough of that, get the hell out of here – Okay, welcome back.
– Well. Who is that guy? I don’t know, he was really cool Yeah, he was—he was super interesting, totally on point. We should have him on more often – I think so
– Totally Some reckless people have started testing Lightning on the mainnet There are now around a hundred different participants 230 channels Blockstream launched a commercial website About last week Where you can buy stickers and really, really getting close to like real-life— – How should I put it? really..
– Real-life usage? Real-life usage! Yes, that’s the word I was looking for I think that’s a lie. I think it’s just Samson sending payments to himself [Laughter] And setting up all the different nodes! Yeah, all the nodes are me actually Show me the prove it’s more than one person I’ll show you the Proof of Sticker Yeah, you just give me stickers to yourself Yeah, you have to buy it, you have to buy it, Charlie You have to be reckless to buy one Are you selling hats? I got lightning working, but all I got was this sticker We will do hats. It’s on the roadmap It’s on the roadmap And now, Satoshi Dice also starting again on the testnet Have you guys tried it, yet? Wait, Satoshi Dice is doing what on what? They’re already starting out Lighting on the testnet Well, virtually. Not really the official Satoshi Dice
but like a similar game The official Satoshi Dice is working on Bitcoin Cash, right? Or Bcash Yes, working on Bcash Not that it gets them any more transactions, but yeah It’s there if anyone ever wanted to use it Which, yeah, we know the answer too Oh, WhalePanda, I like your t-shirt, I just noticed it Yeah, oops So let’s sell it over a Lightning e-commerce store No, that would be reckless Reckless sticker is coming, don’t worry Just as reckless as the multi-sic wallet, right? Just as reckless as the parody multi-sic wallet, maybe [Chuckles] So you guys haven’t tested it yet? What do you guys think about the fact that it’s already live now on the mainnet? Is it like too reckless? In a way, sometimes, if it’s on the mainnet People will be more careful with it and test it better, or I think it’s fine. I think like, I mean if you’re just putting like $20 on it And if you happen to lose it so be it, right? You’re just testing it If there’s no one’s taking risk Then you won’t get anywhere So, my thinking is that we have to start from somewhere, right? People have to buy something
or use Lightning on mainnet for something So it may as well be for low value items like stickers and t-shirts And I think that will jumpstart it and then—that’s actually what we’re seeing now There are more nodes, more channels open and more people willing to test Because if we don’t test it somewhere, then we’ll never get anywhere. There’s not gonna be one day where it’s gonna be totally safe, but if the worst profile is just stickers and t-shirts and stuff, I think we can handle that I’ve also read—so somebody the other day was saying like The big danger is if you use it for large payments And I’m like “but if you’re making a $100,000 dollar payment wouldn’t you just make that as a normal Bitcoin payment? – Why would you use Lighting?
– Yeah Yeah, plus, Lighting will not support large payments that easily because people won’t have $100,000 dollar payment channels open – Exactly
– Exactly Yeah, so I think that—not that the risk is minimal at all but I mean If you mostly using it for small payments, then the risk to both, yourself and the counterparty is relatively low because you’re only buying a $10 item or a $20 item and you know, worst case scenario something happens and Whatever, you split the loss or someone takes a $20 hit That’s why we have the testnet, to test all these stuff on But in a way people really—it’s a bit hard now, people really want to start using it So I think that the fact that it’s now on the mainnet, it’s something positive as long as there’s not too much FUD Too much drama and too many losses, and Yeah, the other thing of course is I’ve had this discussion recently quite a lot Testnet is great for, well, you know, testing things But it’s more like a like a dev environment You know, the people using testnet to test things are typically experienced technical people You need to sort of throw it out there and give it some mainnet real-world usage in order to: A) make it viable to attack because now there’s actual money B) make it more accessible to people who are not going to set up a testnet node, or anything like that Yeah, plus there’s also a natural barrier too
like your average, average user with an SPV wallet is not going to be testing this on Lightning, right? There’s a huge barrier, you can get set up and running before you can actually test it on mainnet Yeah, I must say though like I’m really impressed with what Jack Mallers is doing with Zap And just sort of I mean he’s—obviously there’s a lot of like Debian dev tools style stuff in Zap but in terms of like getting on board and using it Zap’s kind of like reasonably easy.
I can give it to a non-technical person and they can get up and running relatively quickly Yeah Samson, you told me before the show that you wanted to quickly talk about the China Ban Or South Korea Ban, or whatever Asian-country Ban? Asian Ban, yes I think they’re calling ‘Asian Ban’ now because it’s easier, right? But, yeah, the funny thing about it, is that it’s not really a ban, it’s more of like a re-ban so there’s a notice, internal to the PBOC, that was saying “Banks should not deal with accounts that do cryptocurrency trading” but they actually announced that a long time ago, and it’s kind of a re-issuance of an internal memo that was leaked either on purpose or not It’s not really a new thing when you look at it Okay. That’s simple enough Do you have any thoughts about South Korea? What’s going on there? I think they’re looking into more regulation it seems, but South Korea is Pretty interesting right now, you have accusations of insider trading from government officials that are Banning Bitcoin, so I don’t know, it just looks like a drama yeah, and it was like They sold right before the announcement or something I don’t know right now if it was an announcement so, something like that So it’s pretty wild wild west But I think if they do have a bit more regulation there will be a bit more consumer protection Right so, exchanges love to be more careful, but what they do? They have to ensure a certain level of support and service so that people don’t get stuck when they’re trading in all-time highs and You know any other shady things that might be going on. Yeah, so— we’re in this weird place I guess. Where no one wants to invite tons of regulation into the space, but at the same time if we want stuff like patient capital, if we want Institutional investors to come in, then we need to have some regulation Because things like ETFs, the SEC has made it very clear that they’re not going to allow ETFs Because of the fact that there’s so little regulation amongst exchanges, so you kind of want the exchanges to be reasonably regulated so that at least the SEC can turn around and say “Okay, we’re now in a more regulated environment, ETFs are fine” And I mean that at least from my perspective is desirable [in order] to have institutional investment and institutional money coming in Because they’re less prone to panicking during, you know, slight declines – A slight decline, yeah,
– No need to panic sell, just a slight decline People are screaming their heads off when that happens It always happens, we’ve been through it a couple times so many times when like, most people like, 90% of people are new they bought Bitcoin or Litecoin at the high last year and they’re scared I’m so jaded that, like, you know To just—you see the price go up, you see the price go down and like nothing even Like I don’t even look at it anymore. It’s like “Oh it went down last week, cool” You know, you sort of rely on crypto Twitter to let you know Maybe look like every couple days Unless we’re at an all-time high But in general it doesn’t really help you to look at it every day or every hour, it’s just very distracting. For me it’s a bit different yeah it’s kind of like It hurts. Sometimes it really hurts. [sniggers] So on towards the first real topic of the day Coinbase, I think we’re all surprised by the big UTXO Problem or fuckup or however you want to call it. It was like way bigger than anyone expected So the UTXO problem is an issue that more exchanges have, but it was now exposed on Coinbase by not properly managing their outputs From present transactions, they end up with like put a lot of tiny amounts in different addresses so in the end, in order to Spend or consolidate these tiny amounts It would cost them a lot in mining fees more than the actual amount of coins that are in there But to stay a bit positive on Coinbase they did say now that they will implement batching and Segwit this year but—Charlie can you explain to us a bit? Why do the UTXO problem is still happening on Coinbase? You were after all— you were working there for quite a while. I think it’s just I mean, I’m not sure how big of a problem it is right now? I mean, it’s like in terms of like the percentage of coins That they have stuck versus how many coins are holding it may be some really small percentage But the nominal value is fairly large today But it’s not something that it’s going to cause them to go bankrupt or anything And I’m sure they can like part of it from a mining pool and help them like clear out these UTXOs by paying a little bit of money, but I don’t think it’s gonna cost them that much money in terms of like why—like why they haven’t been batching transactions I mean the reason why it’s like a little party because they care more about scaling, right? It’s more important for They make more money—they lose more money if the site goes down then the amount of money They’re losing from paying a little bit more fees in terms of not batching Yeah but that’s not the issue though the issue is that they’re clogging things up for everybody else, right? Well, I mean it’s an open network right so If they’re willing to pay the fees
it’s like spam, right? If spammers are willing to pay the fees for a transaction—you can’t call this spam, right? It’s a valid connection So Coinbase is willing to pay the fees then they did not really do anything wrong per se but They could do, I think—work on making things better But we shouldn’t incentivize them to do the right thing, right? The network should work I tend to agree. I mean, at the end of the day Bitcoin can’t be such that That it only works if everyone’s a good actor – You know, so I mean
– Yeah If Coinbase are willing to pay the fee and they don’t want to batch But we can be upset with them, because they’re It’s not that they’re abusing a limited resource, but that they’re not using the limited resource wisely But we can’t really force them to do anything Yeah, but the problem is that they’re saying we need to scale the two megabyte blocks now now and while they’re doing all that stuff right? If they’re just quietly working away and making their profit and paying the fees and Just being a good actor You know, in some aspects, then who cares? But the problem is that they got very political to do all these things While they’re acting like a spammer basically, I don’t think Coinbase really went out of the way to To say that they need to increase the block size now I mean they just went along with everyone else It’s not—I don’t think Coinbase made more noise than any other company – Then I could tell
– Yeah But they’ve been involved with every single attempt at the fork – Yeah
– Like every every other implementation – XD, Classic, unlimited, 2X
– Yeah Yeah, I mean can you blame them? I mean, they want to externalize the cost to the network, right? Tragedy of the Commons Yeah, I mean as a business Maximizing profit means if the network is willing to increase the block size And they pay—they cost them less money than them having to Optimize their transactions, right? I mean yeah, people are giving them crap about it, but It’s not surprising that these companies Want to increase the block size, that’s simpler and cheaper for them Yeah, makes sense I guess so, – But we don’t have to like you
– We see so—no of course we don’t like it And people are—the people showed their dislike every time Brian post something on Twitter, right? so I mean, I’m sure he gets the message, and they’re working on batching, they’re working on Segwit Yeah, they still want to scale, so they’re working all that and customer support and people give them crap about that so I mean, it’s being Coinbase Give them a break Stop being awesome? Says the former employee I know, but I tend to agree, I mean I think that we—and I am guilty of this too. We can be overly harsh sometimes on People because—not just people but on companies and sometimes we forget that a lot of these companies They’re fighting an uphill battle against against newcomers, who don’t know how things work They’re just trying to manage the existing and new customer base and then we’re like “oh, please make us major change to your system” Otherwise we will write angry things on Twitter Yeah, then Yes, that is true. Well then you gotta look at the other way, too So instead of doing that, they went and did CryptoKitty’s mobile so Priorities right? yeah their priorities are really not in the right place I understand from a business point of view It is of course you’re just looking at profit so what’s the easiest quick win to make more profit? So I guess in that way in it their priorities makes some sense yeah, I mean they I mean, they report to their investors, right? They have to make the money they don’t They don’t report to the Bitcoin users or the network To be fair they do you have they’ve got one developer Who’s working on lightning So I mean like, it’s not like they aren’t deploying resources around And I also trying to hire like five more developers who can work open-source so I think they’re trying to do the right thing, yeah It’s difficult. I think at the end of the day it’s difficult And you know that I have a deep respect for the situation they’re in and I don’t know if I would make better decisions. I think all we can do is just keep encouraging them to Do stuff like batching and Segwits and that Because ultimately is good for their profitability It’s good for their bottom line, and it’s an exercise in futility if they don’t do that Yeah, I mean Segwit is—I mean, I can understand Why they haven’t focus on implementing Segwit I mean Segwit doesn’t affect their bottom line But I mean that’s pretty much it, all right so they—it’s more important to focus on scaling to keep the site up to keep making money than to work out on Segwit which May be good for like a long-term plan, but in the short term. It’s not going to affect much Well Bitcoin is all about the long term, so hopefully they hurry up Hopefully they gets the message now.
-I’m pretty sure they’re working on it Coinbase’s infrastructure is quite complicated I mean, we focus on security, so the coins are like all locked up in a place that’s hard to software’s hard to change And you don’t want to just literally change that part of the software without like real lot of testing because then you can lose a lot of money so for example like for batching, if you screw that up and all sudden like Potentially withdrawal could you could send out five withdrawals not the same amount to the same person because you screwed up the multi-threading of patching In that neck caused Coinbase to lose a lot more money than the fees they’re paying if someone withdraws $50,000 dollars, and then you send them like $250,000 dollars And they run away with it then you’re screwed for a lot more than you’re losing in fees by not doing batching so I can understand why they don’t prioritize patching Yeah Last couple of weeks there are quite big Pump and dumps We’ve seen TRON, you’ve seen Ripple, Ripple went from like 146 million— Billion, sorry Then up to 35 billion then went back up to 60 billion And it was on CNBC at like—they literally showed you how to buy it on Poloniex on CNBC live On the highest point, like it was like around $3 dollars yeah Now we’ve had like a lot of criticism about project, but I don’t know if everyone knows the exact history So it’s a centralized project no one is actually using it though They’re using like the protocol But the first time I met Ricardo Actually at Consensus last year He told me like a very interesting story about Ripple that I didn’t know yet so Ricardo Tell us the story It’s just about the missing blocks – Yes
– Yeah, so there’s like 33,000-32,000 say I’ve got blocks missing from the beginning of the ledger and I’ve had arguments with Ripple people on Twitter who insist that “somewhere, some node definitely has it” You know so why it’s not an issue The fact that you can’t find them is not an issue because some node has it And they can just ask those people for the blocks. What’s the big deal? and also it’s no problem because nothing obviously nothing bad happened in those 32,000 blocks because You know, Ripple’s a good company, and they would never do anything bad. They wouldn’t have used those to create fake money or anything I’ve never looked into their tech How can you be missing blocks in a Blockchain? Probably because it isn’t a real blockchain. I don’t know I’ve never heard of this so they’re missing 32,000 blocks that – That no one has?
– Yeah It’s so—it’s not Blockchain, you can just have like history removed and everything still works? Apparently, but I don’t even know, I don’t know, it’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard in my life and the fact that it’s like Like they—I mean, how do you even sync up without those blocks? Like my brain can’t wrap around, the amount— To be fair, all the Monero blocks are missing, I can’t see anything, so So, look who’s talking, right? No, but look, I mean, either—again like with ripple as with other things— if they were just straight-up honest about it And they were like “hey, what we are is completely centralized, were like the PayPal of cryptocurrencies” And we’re, you know, we’re not trying to be decentralized” then I think people would be with at least respect that more, but they— – But then they won’t be billionaires, so
– Yeah, but they It’s okay just get CNBC to shill it to $5 dollars yeah, but they—I mean,I don’t know if you saw the argument that they had with Peter Tod About how like Ripple validators even though even though like the default ones are hinged off the Ripple domain anyone could be a validatorand so they forced decentralized and then just like That’s it. That’s the end of discussion, anyone can be a validator. That’s permissionless and and they hammered on this point the whole time if it’s this magical decentralized thing and yet they constantly have Relationships and partnerships with banking, to the events at their announcing, which is Wait, wait, there is no banks using it, I read an article – Yeah
– The reporter is asking like “Who was actually using this?” And it came back like “nobody” And then I think a couple days later MoneyGram said “Yeah, we’re testing something” but MoneyGram Yes but, MoneyGram is doing a pilot, there again, that MoneyGram thing They’re like “Oh! We’ve partnered up with MoneyGram!” And MoneyGram is like “Yes, we’re partners with MoneyGram and MoneyGram is using the Ripple Token” And then MoneyGram were like “No, actually we’re conducting a pilot” Yeah There’s a disconnect between like the XRP and like their Ripple protocol for banks, right? I don’t think any of the banks are—will ever touch XRP, but they’re I don’t know if they’re doing on purpose—they’re probably doing it on purpose but their confusing issue where The people investing in XRP think that it’s related to their banking partnerships. They work very hard to imply very vaguely – Yeah
– This is used by banks when it’s totally a separate It’s like you could fork Bitcoin and use it to power blockchain for yourself, but it has nothing to do with Bitcoin Yeah, and then the price of XRP goes up. They have more money to do more partnerships I know for a fact that they’re using XRP to kind of Like they’re giving away XRP to these partners, right? That’s part of the deal And you just look at the deal they made with—was it R3? Yeah, I mean they do something like that so it’s The MoneyGram thing is I can’t—It’s called a project product rather it’s called ‘X rapid’, and it does use XRP for liquidity So it’s not that they are completely issuing XRP, the token It’s just that no one is using it except for like a couple of pilots like MoneyGram So they—they’re trying to make it— it’s like taking something that’s a speculative token and trying to make it a utility token You know, it’s not that easy and you can form all the partnerships you want But like it doesn’t just happen overnight that suddenly it becomes utility And I honestly I don’t see I don’t see banks doing this massive switch over to XRP the token as a liquidity product There was something else, there was like someone was doing a transaction and It never arrived at the other exchange where it was sending it to so it was like that, they were investigating it and Apparently one of the validators went offline so it was literally got like Ripple nodes floor or something that went offline after a Couple of days or like a week. It’s only came back online and Then his transaction went through so He was actually just stuck because one of the Ripple nodes was down – One of the six Ripple nodes, right?
– Yeah, exactly But don’t forget anyone can be a validator, so it’s totally decentralized Okay Yeah, I never understood the whole The whole like Ripple How the whole consensus works, it seems like a lot of hand-wavy, and I haven’t looked at it in like years But when I first heard about it like “how does this work?” like this is just like someone says “We’ll figure it out, the consensus will form” like it just never I never understand how it works Charlie, the distinction you need to make there is the original Ripple protocol was interesting, the thing we have today is very different from the original proposal and I think like the original proposal was a lot of was basically trying to do like a Byzantine fault-tolerance style thing And the Ripple protocol today is just this weird maze of like Validators will magically come to consensus It doesn’t matter anyways It doesn’t matter Doesn’t matter okay, so I want to do a—announce a contest, so I’ve got a 2018 SIPA calendar, a year of SIPA calendar it’s a calendar with 12 months of Pieter Wuille SIPA, so You can see we’ve got some really nice artwork I’ve got a few other artists that contributed there, that allowed me to use their work, right? – Are you selling this on your blockstream store?
– Yeah, yeah – We’ll put a few, limited
– Yeah but can I buy it with Lightning? We’ll put a few limited editions ones on the Blockstream store But yeah, I want to announce the contest the contest will be You have to come up, the top five, Peter Wuille facts So you can go to pieterwuillefacts.com
to see What they are, but the top five submissions is at magical crypto will win one of these lovely calendars It’s nice to give back to the fans I heard Pieter Wuille when he was once in the fight with Elon Musk and won – On a rocket?
– Yup Okay, we have a winner, we have one winner already So there’s four more chances to win one of these calendars Just set us up all three of us alreayd like it. I heard Pieter Wuille was on the witness stand and then they segregated him from the other witnesses Vaporware, it’s just vaporware, we need bigger witness stands We’re going to switch to some fan questions. So the first one: “How and when did you get into Bitcoin or Crypto?” Okay so for me—I’ll do it first, for me it was around January 2014 that I actually bought my first Bitcoin I heard about first around I think 2011 in Black Hat World, which was an online marketing forum but it all sounded so much like a scam, like “we have magical internet money” and Yeah, and “there’s only a limited amount’ So I just assumed that was a scam, and I just ignore it for a couple of years and then I got into the—in the mainstream media and then actually So for me it was around 2014 So the biggest mistake of your life was ignorng bitcoin when you first heard about it Yeah 2006, I got into bitcoins Only one year after I did Uh, yeah 2011 I read an article on the Silk road about it on the site I read an article on Wired about the Silk Road You mean you bought something on Silk Road? That’s why you are the way you are I used drugs to buy Bitcoin I’m just kidding Yeah, I actually bought my first Bitcoin from Mike Hearn I was at Google at the time and he was at Google and he was like the Bitcoin guy at Google, so But I think I bought one Bitcoin from him, So I also have to thank Mike Hearn for Introducing me to Bitcoin, because I wrote a Slashdot article in early 2011 When you released—what is it? Bitcoin J I was like “Oh, okay. What’s this Bitcoin thing and why is a Google engineer so interested in it?” and And I went and read up, read the white paper and all that And I was like “Nah this is nonsense, this can never work, this is impossible” and I was trying to prove that it was impossible and that didn’t go so well So Samson, for you, when did you get into Bitcoin? Think it was 2013, I read an article on TechCrunch talking about Bitcoin, and I actually tried to mine that time so I set up an account on slush and Didn’t get anything so I gave up. I was really busy, so I was like doing game development at times So I didn’t have time to play with it too much, so I just kind of knew about it I was just watching it, reading in the news And then I got my first Bitcoin actually from your brother Charlie, from Bobby So it is—it was at this Christmas party, and he was Really trying to sell people bitcoins, so I bought one from him. It was like 2014 That’s probably the one I gave him I think you owe me a Bitcoin And I paid for that I did give him a Bitcoin like, back then
Bitcoins were $30 I sent him the Bitcoins, playing around with this. He never gave it back to me, so Yeah, call him up Next question This is a lot more technical than the previous one So how does Meltdown and Spectre affect the crypto space This is more for Ricardo Yeah, I think the primary issue is all of these attacks just can lead to things like Key exfiltration, that’s really your main risk and I think that If you weren’t using a hardware wallet up till now for Storing anything over like a $100 dollars, then you need to really like reconsider your priorities There’s, you know, we’re never going to mitigate risk entirely you know, there’s always going to be like like a really sophisticated targeted attack that will be able to exfiltrate your keys regardless But a lot of those things, when we’re getting to the point where They’re compromising Hardware wallets in that that’s sort of that little sophistication that they were targeting Often requires physical access, it requires, you know intercepting packages and all sorts of stuff And I don’t think you typically need to worry about that Unless you are literally storing millions and millions of dollars so for the most part Just literally, just having a hardware wallet that you’ve ordered directly from ledger or digital Bitbox or any of those guys Trezor or whatever, literally just having that is enough to shield you from a lot of these unknown attacks like Spectre and Meltdown and some of the new stuff that’s coming up All that is sort of off-shoot from all those attacks I think there are also applications for exchanges too Because exchanges are using a lot of cloud infrastructure and They’re pretty much at risk just because it’s hard for an exchange to scale up using bare metal So everybody is almost on cloud, which they Shouldn’t be, but it’s not—there’s no easy solution around that so yeah, it’s gonna be a challenge It’s like exchanges that use MongoDB you know, I mean like eventual consistency is not the sort of thing you want in exchange and and so you some of the blame honestly lies with exchanges where—if they’re doing that, if they’re doing like The stuff that isn’t very robust and rigorous, like hosting on VMs and AWS They—you know, scaling is a hard And if you’re scaling financial software It’s doubly so, because you can’t do it in the easy route. You need to actually have your own cage at a set of cages at data centers And you need to be able to like lock people out physically and all sorts of stuff, and it—there’s no way around it Reminds me of, there’s one exchange that had their exchange running on a VM and the VM Restarted and came up like clean, everything wiped And the their hot wallets, all the Bitcoins are gone Because they didn’t have a backup I hope it was a while ago Yeah, it was a while ago. They didn’t realize that when the VM restarts it comes back up clean Yeah, it was like millions of dollars worth of coins, probably it’s worth a billion dollar now Learning lessons, growing pains One interesting questions I thought is that Is it possible if people are too complacent and lazy to find decentralization useful? If so, how do you envision the development for the industry? Because if you think about it, If you value decentralization, you will never buy something like Ripple Yeah Which is like the perfect example for that I consider this one of the threats to Bitcoin and Monero It’s just the level of complacency that people have maybe more to Monero, you know that people will go like well “Yeah, privacy is kind of cool, but is it that important?” You know, is it worth overcoming the barriers to entry To use this privacy enhancing project or tool, and if there’s enough complacency then People won’t, they’ll just be too lazy to do it and maybe with Bitcoin and with other stuff we’ll see the same people will be too lazy to figure out Why something is a bad idea, and they’ll just use it because Transactions are fast, and they work, and they don’t really care how or why, but then why don’t you just use PayPal? Yeah, why don’t you? Because they want the allure of Using decentralized internet money but they want the ease of use of PayPal so here’s a good example Something like Dash Okay with their masternodes and Dash Evolution and whatever they’re doing this whole thing Where—as I understand it You’ll be able to register with your email address and so the—from an ease of use perspective Users will find that extremely compelling because it’ll be like a PayPal-like experience And the users can even be sold the story that is decentralized because anyone can run a Masternode just like anyone can be a Ripple validator and And if you’ve sold that story And you get the ease of use then of course you—as a user you might go “This is fantastic” and struggle to tell or to understand why that model is bad, why that idea is broken. It’s not something that that’s easy to translate into Layman’s terms, you know like “Hey, you know, this is bad, and here’s why” yeah, I think it’s a really good question though and I think people are quite complacent—a lot of the new people especially, they’re just coming in because They want to make some money, right? And it’s not even a factor for a lot of those people But decentralization and censorship resistance You know, these are all things that don’t really matter until suddenly it matters Once you’ve experienced some kind of censorship, or you know you need some system to be decentralized, it’s kind of too late, so it’s kind of like thinking ahead of time or realizing something has value before you need it And that’s not a quality most people have but actually you can look at a practical example of this So, you know the internet was built in a certain way and now we have risks of attacks on net neutrality and You know, nothing is encrypted over Internet. You know, we could have built Internet so everything had encryption at the base level But we don’t actually have that, but looking back now You know, that would have been handy to have when we were developing the protocol I think most people, like far majority people in this space right now are Just here to try to make a quick buck, right? so they’re just speculating, you don’t have to care that much about Using a cryptocurrency and it’s more about like investing in and trading sell later for profit, so today like decentralization is just a buzzword Makes their coin worth more money So they don’t really care if the coin is truly decentralized or not I think, like Samson said Well, you won’t really know until you’re tested, and you won’t really know like for example Is Dash decentralized? Is Ripple decentralized? And then it’s all about the fact that your payments is uncensorable Right? The security of decentralization is just to make sure that when you pay something someone some money that no one can block you, no one can breach your transactions No one can steal your money And Bitcoin is by far the most decentralized coin, but For a lot of people they don’t care Well, here’s a funny story so, when we launched the blockstream satellite So we’re distributing the news in China on social media and everything when we launched blockstream from satellite, a lot of people like oh “That’s so stupid” and then a few months later when China was saying they’re gonna ban mining and they filter traffic for Bitcoin Then also, I noticed like one articles like was being retweeted over and over and over again, then people are saying well “This is really cool, the satellite technology, and it’s really useful” So you just don’t know until someday you might need something Right? Or something might come in handy – Yeah
– Yeah Can miners actually run with your your satellite technology? Can they like get the blocks that way then get the transactions that way and then? Upload their blocks some other way? We’re working on something. We’re working on two-way transmission up and down, so give us some time Cool Latency would probably mean that your orphan risk is too high If you’re using that for mining To broadcast a block, we should be able to do it, but you know, would have to work with Chris, our head of satellite and figure something out I love it, Head of satellite – Yeah, I was just thinking, Head of Satelite
– That’s his title “What do you do?” “Oh I’m the head of satellite” – It sounds cool, like actually
– Yeah, CEO of Monero Enterprise Alliance – You know, all cool titles
– Yeah They can only be one CEO—although actually, they can be many CEOs with the Monero Enterprise Alliance, anyone can be a CEO How much does it pay? So it pays about 5,000 Monero a month But you just need to bear in mind that that’s testnet-Monero Okay last question So, why do we accept BCash on our YouTube page, Samson? Because WhalePanda wanted it Yeah, obviously yeah, that makes sense We accept BCash on our YouTube page? What? Where’s my BCash? You’re the Tip Address Have we received any Bitcoin Cash yet? Nope, last time I checked, we didn’t We accept some Bitcoin but Why does the Bitcoin Cash community not like us? I’m even calling a Bitcoin cash. See? I’m nice The Bitcoin Cash community should be tipping us If we don’t get $10,000 dollas in Bitcoin Cash within the next week We must stop accepting Bitcoin Cash And we’re gonna change it to Bitcoin Cash ROFL – Okay, John the Kaplan
– Or BCash, BCash ROFL Okay, Samson you tweeted that Like, I think two weeks ago, that if you got 20,000 retweets – You would start making the short story
– Yeah And I saw it now, It’s already at 16,000 I think someone bought some retweets very obviously, cause we’re at 16,000 – Okay
– So we’re getting close So, have you started writing the script yet? Not yet, but I’ve got some ideas, It’s gonna have a kangaroo and He speaks with an Aussie accent So does this mean that I can stop doing this podcast The stupid podcast no, this is in addition to the Podcast – Oh
– This is your life now, But you said you were not doing any Media coverage anymore. This is like your only voice – Yeah
– The people want to hear you, Charlie No they don’t, they just can’t find Satoshi, that’s why They have to settle for Satoshi Lite Well, the TRON people don’t want to hear you. – That’s for sure,
– Not sure why, – TRON yeah
– The movie? No, not the movie, the shit going on Ohhhh, okay
The movie was good Okay guys, a very productive day Again, so let’s finish the show, Thank you all for watching and see you next time Okay, see you guys – Bye
– Bye

100 thoughts on “Episode 03: Charlie2X”

  1. Coinbase passes the fees on to their customers so no they arent the ones who pay.. So the way to incentivise them is to stop using coinbase.

  2. For sure looks Cheap from Dash….. Im with u guys on this one… My favourite Show About crypto.. nice to see u guys just chiling and have some fun… u were my 30 min Elyptic Training company … Keep on Having some fun and at same time sharing some nice info…. 😉

  3. Guys, fix your mics, this time Charlie had bad mic. Talk to each other and sort out all of you to have the same mics, so the sound to be the same. Right now, one mic is loud, other feels deep voices, third is high pitch…

  4. Yes we do, Charlie! Your humour is an essential ingredient of the podcast! – but I'm not entirely sure how you look irl now 😂 😜

    Great episode, guys! Looking forward to seeing you again!

  5. so is no one using it , or are they using it, you just said both things withing 3 minutes at 33-36 min fucking retards

  6. The constant "ban fear" that's felt in bitcoin is largely a manifestation of bitcoiners inner guilt. Not a statement of right or wrong, just an observation. As bitcoin becomes less guilt ridden (happening now) the constant fear will dissipate.

  7. Ripple is sounding more like Hillary everyday… 33,000 missing blocks? 😉

    Hey I'm a BCH fan, and I like you guys? Why don't you like BCH? Is it Roger's unbridled passion or what? Seems to me like BCH is giving BTC a real run for the money.

  8. i donated bch to you two weeks ago and it's clearly visible so that's weird to say.. apparently two other people did as well https://explorer.bitcoin.com/bch/address/197MVjSnUwAkvqsbpyaczzqiKN1Yz3nez8 maybe you could just be polite and list it as Bitcoin Cash please thanks

  9. Loved it, informative and funny can't wait till the next episode. Good range of topics covered, appreciate the bit on Ripple as well. Also get your ass into gear and make the cartoons.

  10. I want to acquaint you with TokenGo. It is the Platform of the project with the strong tools for creation of the ico or release of cryptocurrency and on business tokenization generally. The crypto exchange is planned, now passes Presale on which to the investor quite good bonuses drip. Itself entered and I advise you!

  11. You lost me at ripple sucks. You seem like a bunch of whiny high schoolers. Charlie-thanks for selling at the high. Ripple is bigger than litecoin and always will be. Charlie-you should be locked up for scamming millions.

  12. I can't believe I prefer spending my time watching youtube videos of 4 nerds talking about magic internet money for an hour instead of watching my favourite netflix series… But srsly this channel is very informative and a lot more people should be watching. Keep it up!

  13. Magical Crypto Friends: What's your opinion on Hashgraph (virtual-voting w/ gossip protocol) distributed ledger technology? They propose a solution to "true" real-time (asynchronous) byzantine fault tolerance. To clarify, I'm not talking about hashgraph in particular, as it's privatized, and I assume they would NOT provide a "fair lunch." I'm referring to the technology behind it. I don't have a twitter account, I hope someone reads this.

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  15. WhalePanda, your shirt spurred for me a rabbit hole. I was aware of the devops199 issue however not in detail. I need to grab one of those t's for myself 😀

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