CryptoCurrency Market To Revive? – with Robert Allen of COINCUBE

whether my friends Chris Marcus here with you for another episode of inside the markets and today we are covering the Kryptos with my good friend Robert Allen of coin Cube also a former broker with Peter ship's precious metals company so we may dig into metals too a lot of good stuff so hit that subscribe button now so that you can stay tuned with the good stuff for bringing you here and with that said Robert welcome to the show and how are you today my friend I'm excellent Chris it's so good to see you yeah it's a pleasure we met I think it was back in 2011 when you were still with Peter Schiff I bought some silver from you back then and was interesting I think you were the first person who told me about Bitcoin way back when obviously now you've created coin cubes so certainly a crypto expert and with everything that's going on in the crypto sector these days who better to talk to so perhaps we could start off just give us a recap of where you think the whole crypto market stands obviously getting beaten up pretty thoroughly lately so I'd love to hear what you're thinking and seeing right now yeah well you know experience is one of life's best allies I guess you could say I have been you know in crypto now for quite a while and I yeah I think I heard about Bitcoin in 2011 I went up to the porcupine freedom festival libertarian festival up in New Hampshire and there are all these wild libertarians with this this weird digital money and and unfortunately I didn't actually understand it at that point and I didn't take the time to learn about it and I didn't understand that they had basically solved this problem digital scarcity the idea that we know typically with digital things like like an mp3 or you know a word document you can just copy that as many times as you want right and of course money needs to be scarce for it to have value and to be useful so I just kind of dismissed it out of hand and thought you know this is some crazy experiment that could never work but then I started following it a little bit more 2012-13 and really finally got involved in 2013 and so you know I've been yeah but I've lived through now well one significant bubble where I actually had you know skin in the game and sat through the 2014 and 15 down cycle good training right yeah you know I'll be honest there were days when I thought you know maybe I've really made a big blunder here and this whole thing is just gonna blow up in my face but I think overall you know the conviction in the technology and what I was seeing and ultimately you know if you just look at one of the beautiful things about Bitcoin and crypto is it's it's an information-rich market so for Bitcoin you can go to blockchain dot info for example and you can look at all sorts of charts that show you the number of transactions per day on the network the hash rate which is basically the number of computations that are there being used to it's essentially secure the network so all that sort of information really can give you a sense of the health of the network and you know I I kept seeing in spite of the the price of Bitcoin dropping so much that the use of John the network was continuing to rise you know the number of wallets was going up and and you know you so you just start to draw some trend lines and assuming that those those trends continue you can start to extrapolate out well you know two or three years you're going to have right now we have a million users and probably have 10 million and that was in fact the case so following trends has really been my friend in terms of investing in crypto but in general it's obviously a very very volatile market it's a very small market compared to most others and you know I think the analogy of kind of imagining you know if you've got a little pool and you jump into it you're gonna make a big splash and you know if you jump into the ocean you're not going to see really any splash all and that really is the case for crypto so you know that the prices move up and down quite a bit because of the all our size of the market and I also think part of it too is that you have some people who just get in because they see the price rising and there's that speculation thing and crypto is pretty easy to speculate in compared to like a stock portfolio it can be a little bit tricky or sometimes to set that up and there's a lot of potentially kyc AML and you know paperwork and just nonsense whereas with crypto you know if you open up a coin base account or you know other providers like that you can buy crypto you know the same day and you can you know send it to finance or some exchange and start buying up a bunch of vault coins and so it's easy to get into and I think that also the the the ease of liquidity in and out of it lends to to more volatility in the market but yeah I mean I think again I've always been more of a fundamentals kind of investor and and the market fundamentals for crypto are good and they continue to look good in terms of the number of wallets the number of users the number of use cases you know for example in Venezuela right now and in Argentina countries where you have significant problems with inflation Bitcoin is becoming more and more used and in terms of the trading volumes there and the number of people holding crypto the numbers continue to rise so there are real real world use cases I also think another big case for Bitcoin especially is going to be essentially you know offshore banking where you can really have a Swiss bank account essentially in terms of how Bitcoin works where you're able to mitigate political risk and and risks like that and to really hold your money in a way that it can't be confiscated by governments or banks you know and and and I think even more than that you know coming from the precious metals world I think that Bitcoin really represents what gold is supposed to be but but even I would argue actually you know uh augments our adds additional features such as the the portability the you know the fact that you can travel across borders with millions of dollars with cryptocurrency and if you know twelve words you'd phrase you know no one can take that from you and no one would even know that you have that money so that that's a tremendous power that you know with gold you're obviously dealing with a physical commodity that you have to transport if you're going to move it across the border so that's a big downside for gold so I think Bitcoin really you know it's kind of a furtherance of that vision of a non government money and in many ways you know at the very least I would say is a very very good complement to gold for those of your you know washers listeners who are gold bugs you know I understand all those arguments and and I would say I you know agree with most of them so I you know that's one thing I think that's interesting is that you've kind of got this bifurcation where you have more or less kind of libertarian free-market types but then you've got one camp who's the Gold Bug camp you've got one campus crypto camp and I I think to the degree that we can try to work together and move together we should so there's actually one interesting project called vault Oro and they are essentially allowing people to you know to buy gold with bitcoin and trade back and forth they've created a market for gold to Bitcoin and I'm I still haven't done it but this it's on my I would say mine six months to a year kind of roadmap but eventually I'd like to actually integrate vault or Oso coin cube users would be able to hold some gold and actually you know kind of mix that into their portfolio and kind of see it in conjunction with their crypto so essentially become like a more of a hard money portfolio at that point it wouldn't be purely crypto but I see some benefits there in you know kind of of course gold is going to be quite a bit more stable than Bitcoin so you know let's say you are trying to trade a little bit more in terms of speculating on the price movements you could instead of holding dollars you could sell your Bitcoin for gold if you feel like the price of Bitcoin has gotten a little bit ahead of itself yeah which is kind of kind of cool and then you're never even touching fiat so there's some some really cool things happening in crypto that you know again fundamentals look really solid and that's that's what I pay attention to lived through this before it's you know it'll happen again and if you look at charts for Bitcoin there have been I think we're up to five or six bubbles now but generally speaking you know it'll hit some new high and then it'll crash but the price that it drops to during that crash is typically twice as high as the last high as the last bubble high and that's what we're at now because I think Bitcoin topped in 2000 was it 2013 I think it was it topped at like I think it was like 13 or $1500 or maybe it even got to 2000 1980 I forget the exact number but it was in that range and right now it's sitting at you know thirty four thirty five hundred so it's roughly double the last you know the last peak prior to this big $20,000 run-up so you know the fundamentals are looking good yeah I mean now is the time if you've been sitting on the fence about crypto this is when you want to buy you don't want to buy when it's always you know it's all over the news everyone's freaking out and and the price is at near an all-time high that's the wrong time to buy but this is a great time so yeah that's it gets a little bit of my thoughts on that yeah and Robert you make a lot of good points in there especially when you talk about the fundamentals because like in a lot of our markets sometimes the fundamentals are divorced from the trading action if someone was mentioning recently how the price is off in a voting machine sir and essentially if we're talking about a technology that probably less than 1% actually of the population actually understands it makes sense that all right if you're gonna see a big you know bigger price appreciation may take more adoption or implementation until that happens so that's why I like what you mentioned about you looking at how many wallets are being opened up is the technology actually being adopted I mean we've seen in the past year went from 1,000 to 20,000 back to 3,000 so someone right in the long term someone isn't right but if the technology has to be used which and again what drew me into it and then based on our conversations from years back where you know both seeing that any argument you can make against the kryptos applies more thoroughly to the dollar and people are saying it's a digital asset what's here I mean look at all these digital dollars the Fed is creating right I've kind of looked at it as long as the adoption and you see Plus I don't think we've hit the real break point which whenever the dollar really runs into trouble curious what what happens then with the price when we're forced to use it's similar to how you mentioned is happening down in some of the countries that are already experiencing that yeah right that's you bring a very good point which is that Bitcoin in many ways similar to gold is is essentially a play that is short the dollar short stability in in US economy and in other economies basically short the system as it stands today which you know we see just tremendous debt that continues to pile up in the United States that you know is going to have to be reconciled at some point and and most likely the the the easiest route politically is to print money it's the least painful probably of all the routes that they could take at least in the immediate term and that's you know that's politicians are thinking about the next election they're not thinking about five or ten years from now so yeah you that that's it that's really I think the most succinct argument for Bitcoin is to say that you know if you don't believe the the system can be sustained as it is today that then where are your alternatives where can you store some value and hope to weather that storm gold and silver make a lot of sense in that argument potentially some stocks can I would argue and then of course I think crypto really is a great play there as well yeah and it's it's interesting when you get past all the doctrine and the things people are saying about no tangible value but actually compared again last year I had an assistant help me with some things and I had to pay about a hundred or two hundred dollars and I'm like geez if I go I wanted to get a check either have to go to the bank or go to the ATM then have to go find the person versus you know if you just send some light coin or send some Bitcoin similar with I had money wired a couple months ago actually took a few hours to show up I'm sure it was about $40 versus you could have sent that instantly for pennies and you also mentioned how if let's say you want to go to another country I would disagree with the laws we have in place I mean if you have $50,000 and want to get on the plane with it I don't see why some bureaucrat has any influence whereas we like those you can actually do that so right it seems to me like is a much better system and I get the feeling you're greeing with that as well yeah that's another good point is if you just think about you know gold dollar Bitcoin all these different forms and money as you know essentially all competing which they are to some degree then one of the features what are the pros and cons for each of these options and and start to just kind of weigh those out and then think long term what are people ultimately going to prefer and and to me that seems very obvious you know really from the point I read the white paper that at least you know there would be subsets of people who would find use with crypto be it people in countries with problems with inflation be it people you know essentially operating in gray or black markets you know and and all those those use cases have proven themselves so far and you know I think also kind of to the other point you were making earlier you know I remind me of Peter this idea of you know intrinsic value and you know ironically I mean I love Peter obviously I worked for him for several years I think he's you know brilliant economist in many respects and overall I think his take on you know the Federal Reserve and in the government's in terms of how things are operating pcs spot-on but one place of where I would say I differ is you know this idea that money needs to have a quote intrinsic value for it to have value and I you know ironically I believe its Rothbard Murray Rothbard actually you know argued that all value is subjective that is you need a human with once and desires to actually look at that object and decide that they want it for it to be valuable so in other words obviously if the earth was devoid of human life or of sentient thinking beings then nothing would have value right it would all just be inert or you know lifeless or whatever and so yeah I mean I that's how I view and I think that value is subjective it's based on human psychology and on our wants and needs and and whether you know a given tool can help us to achieve our goals and so that's where I really do feel like in many respects Bitcoin and crypto provide a better use case as money than gold or dollars of course there are some examples you know if there was a giant solar flare and we lost all of our you know communications and and so on then Bitcoin would be in trouble that would be hard to use so gold would win in that scenario you know but but you know given if if the idea is that we are going to live in a world that is increasingly connected digital internet-based then you need a money that is internet that is native to the internet that is programmable and that is non government and borderless and so that's really the the big vision I think for yeah it's interesting you mentioned what Rothbard said it's funny when I was back in Liberto PIA earlier this year I was listening to Jeffrey Tucker speak and he was mentioning the definitions of money which and I like how you mentioned how the if there's anyone who's anti crypto maybe the gold bugs but the silver bugs in particular and on one hand I get it yet you know there's what perhaps I think should be and then you know you can go down Venezuela Argentina and look where the currency is actually failing what they're using so I think there's some value to the empirical when and again as we talked about earlier okay where's the intrinsic value behind digital dollars or the Federal Reserve's printing press so you know I find just thinking in those terms helps put things in perspective a little bit one question I was curious to ask you are there any names in particular Kryptos that you like again won't ask you to give we're not giving licensed financial information but certainly any ones that you know for people who are looking to buy that in your opinion are at least worth investigating or have good business ideas that you that you're interested in yeah sure I'm happy to say a few things again obviously not investment advice so do your own research of course you know Bitcoin has been a big part of my portfolio from the beginning of my interest for a few reasons I mean obviously first mover advantage is important especially when you're looking at a technology that is predicated on network effect you know so in other words it may not be the best quote-unquote best technology that wins it may just be the one that has the widest adoption and so there are some arguments that Bitcoin may not be the best crypto and there's you know people will try to say that the confirmation time is a problem I think that's a bit of a red herring because for most transactions you could actually basically trust it even before you have any confirmations in the blockchain that you know the transaction is going to go through but and we're kind of getting into the woods or the weeds here with some of that so I don't know how far we want to go there but but yeah so Bitcoin of course you know there's some detractors and some things about it that could be argued but it has you know of course the largest number of users the most recognition in terms of just name recognition and if you're going to trade on in any exchange they will have a Bitcoin 2x hair to trade so it's really the ubiquitous asset in the market right now and I don't see that going away anytime soon so I really would say you know it's easy to get you know kind of sucked in to this idea that well there's this new technology and it's it's better and you know how it will have their reasons for mice the new the new best thing and the quit the get quit what am i translate to get rich quick you know thing that you should buy I would be cautious about that there have been quite a few scam outright scams and then there are also just a lot of kind of half-baked projects so you know a core holding I would argue for just about anyone in crypto should be Bitcoin beyond that I really am very excited about etherium there are some questions about scalability there and there you know it remains to be seen I would say it's a bit more speculative than Bitcoin but but in terms of adoption it's it is really the smart contract blockchain right now you have PRC 20 tokens which are very popular and it's a standard that's used for countless projects so basically the ICO boom was an ERC 20 boom or or less and for those who don't know that's basically PRC 20 is a contract on aetherium that allows you to create essentially a digital token of value and that can be really – whatever specification is required by that project so there are quite a few NRC 20 tokens that are you know a couple examples would be wrap for example which is the augur augur token that was one of the first ones and there are many others but yeah so theorem is very exciting the other thing that's interesting about it is you also have a RC 721 tokens which basically are non fungible digital items and those are mostly being used for example if you've heard crypto kiddies that was probably the most kind of popular and maybe one of the first to build on this idea but they're essentially collect double crypto you know cards if you will are items similar to almost like beanie babies or something like that so it's you know each one is unique and but for people who like collecting and trading cards you know this is really essentially taking that idea but applying it to a blockchain and there are a lot of other projects that are coming out there's one recently that I think it's God something God's my memory on that's lacking but basically it's like they're taking a collectible card game or trading card game and and building that into their network to build that so there's some really cool things happening there basically a lot a lot of users a lot of developer adoption which is very important if you're going to try to build you know a protocol and actually have it used in software you really need to get developers on board so there's a lot of support there there's really good developer tools so I think etherium should be a core holding as well and then beyond that you know it's hard to say there are a lot of projects I like um you know there's some argument for privacy coins like – from an arrow okay or actually did talk with joelle from the – team was interesting he mentioned in Venezuela a lot of people are using – right now yeah yeah and I like you know – get some hate because of this sort of pre mine issue that that is kind of out there and I'm not totally sure what I think about that but I do like what I've seen from them in terms of yeah just just trying to think creatively about how to build a cryptocurrency and also how to incentivize developers so basically built into their model they actually have a part of the mining fees directed to a fund that they are able to then use to pay developers to pay marketers and so that that way it kind of operates a little bit more closely to a decentralized autonomous organization a Dao or Dao as some people will call those so that's a really cool feature actually that's one thing that I kind of wish coined a Bitcoin rather would build into to his protocol is some kind of way to actually help fund the development of that software yeah so – – is interesting Manero is interesting monaro uses technology called bring signatures which is probably quite a bit more more secure i would argue in terms of privacy then then – from from what I've under understood there's potentially ways that you could dn hana mais people in – I mean theoretically a bit more easily but yeah I mean I guess that's probably all I would say there's there's so many projects it's really hard to to you know kind of cherry-pick one thing that I do believe in is essentially you know for people to take a subset of their investment in crypto and just buy an index you know especially if you don't have the time and or ability really to dig deeply into all these white papers and understand what's going on you know maybe take if you're going to you know invest let's say 10,000 in crypto maybe take two 3,000 of that and and just buy an index of crypto so say the top 10 or the top 20 and really what that allows you to do is to follow the market in a more broad sense and to have a little bit of exposure to quite a few different projects you know again a handful of those are probably going to go nowhere given kind of the size and and you know where we are in terms of the growth of these networks something will die but as long as you as long as a couple of those do well which is pretty likely then that should work out pretty well in the end and so that's one of the things that we've built into coin cube which is a portfolio index portfolio approach you can also do your own custom portfolio with our software but you know we make it really easy for people to to follow an index to have it rebalance you know monthly or daily even we've got a lot of different features that people can play with to really customize and get exactly what they're looking for yeah and actually I'd like to dig in a little bit more to the coin cube and perhaps for the folks that obviously there's a lot of people out there trading the kryptos and maybe you could just give an overview of some of the services and ways that that can help make that easier and think especially now would be a good time for people to be aware of what you're doing especially if they are looking to get invested sure yeah so the the vision for coin cube has has definitely evolved a little bit over the last few years as I've been working on the project where we are headed is you know essentially we want to make first of all make it very easy for people to monitor their entire crypto crypto portfolio so you know before you even start thinking about trading you need to really have a good idea of what you're holding and ideally you should not be holding you know all of your crypto on in exchange that's very dangerous especially just on one exchange it's a very dangerous thing to do there have been some pretty notable you know exchange hacks where people have lost a lot of money so so you know the first thing that we offer we have a couple different products or I guess like I call them modes now but basically with one cube you can for free track your portfolio that's one of the modes so you can you know you can add wallet addresses so you can actually track the assets on those wallets if funds come in that'll be accounted for with the software funds go out etcetera so that that should make life a little bit easier if you've got funds on multiple different wallets you can track those we have wallet support for most of the big you know Bitcoin litecoin aetherium etc most of the big coins we have support for and then secondly you can track your holdings on exchanges we have eleven exchanges now that we support so you know most likely we have you covered and we're adding exchanges pretty frequently so that number could used to grow so that's the first thing and then beyond that if you are looking to to actually automate an index you can do that we have an index product so you can hold funds on there exchange like finance or Polonia X or whatever and very easily you know allocate to the top 10 or top 20 and that will rebalance every month and it will also re-index so for example if you know the number 10 asset falls out of that index it'll sell that out and buy whatever is now in that place number 10 and then the third product R offering is called centaur and that's essentially portfolio management tool that you can use to build a custom portfolio you could also use it even to more or less day trade so you can basically fully customize your portfolio allocations on an exchange so let's say you know from week to week you want to make kind of more precise decisions about I'm holding this asset and now I'm going to sell it you can do that very easily with coin cube you can also set it to rebalance with sort of an index approach as well but you could build a custom index so that product is really kind of geared toward more active portfolio management type strategies and then finally it hasn't been released yet but I would expect within the next month roughly we will be launching a dollar cost or cost average tool I guess it's not purely dollar cost because you'll be able to average with Bitcoin as well but that tool will allow you to say every week you know buy X amount of aetherium or I should say by X value worth of Bitcoin of aetherium so let's say it's point point zero one Bitcoin and what that does is you know if the price of aetherium is dropped compared to Bitcoin it'll buy a little bit more because you're averaging them with the same amount of Bitcoin than the same amount of dollars it's a very kind of popular approach for for stock investing and especially when you're trying to get in and out of positions mm-hmm you'll be able to use that tool so I'm a really excited I think that's going to be very useful and you know given where we are in the market right now with crypto for people who maybe been on the fence you know now is a great time to average into a portfolio because the prices you know they could drop more of course that's possible but when we're sitting at a you know more than eighty percent drop in Bitcoin it's it's you know that the odds that it goes to ninety percent from the top are you know lower than that it goes up from here right so so that's that's kind of where we are and so I'm excited about that tool I think it should be very useful but yeah I mean the vision is to be able to monitor and to automate a crypto portfolio from one place kind of your crypto dashboard and that's what we're doing and it's it's exciting to see people using the product we worked for the last year basically rebuilding the entire application I was in Switzerland about a year ago and we got into an accelerator program which was really exciting and basically I you know we made some mistakes in in the infrastructure side of things and we were not able to scale up we had a massive amount of interest in new users onboarding on the platform but the trade engine was essentially built poorly and it was more or less like if you can imagine one rate a one lane highway or one lane road and so as you get more and more users you just start to have a bottleneck so the new version has been rebuilt to essentially be parallelized and so now as we scale up I can add additional lanes when they're needed and so you know that's one of those things where coming from finance and not a software background you know I've run into some issues where I just simply didn't have the information to make good decisions but for four and a half five years in now to software development I think I've you know finally learned some of those harder lessons about scaling and some of those things and I mean I'm really excited about the software that we built and it's working very well now so I'm excited to see more and more people use it yeah it's I guess maybe that's how life sorts these things out sometimes where we have to tinker for awhile men at the right time things come into place and certainly with the environment now I think you're in a great position especially I do believe we'll see another wave and a lot of interest it was interesting one of the guests I had on actually in Liechtenstein runs a fund that in bed in crypto so few folks perhaps I could introduce you to that might be a good fit for what you're doing as well as just regular people who are getting into kryptos and it's we have all this infrastructure for stocks and bonds yeah it's nice that you're providing that for the crypto sector which i think especially as the market grows again think will be some exciting times yeah yeah I think so too I think you know there are a lot of tools and and kind of infrastructure that really need to be built for crypto for people to be able to use it and and that's you know what I'm trying to do is find a need in the market and hopefully address it and in terms of you know the comment about your connection in Liechtenstein yeah so it's it's not launched yet but I do have plans and I've been working on essentially like an institutional version of coin cube which would be focused toward you know funds fund managers you know investment advisers that sort of family offices you know people who are managing lots lots of money and might have you know I don't know funds on multiple exchanges and so yeah we don't have to go too far into that because it's still in the works but that's something I'm excited about because I think you know right now we're kind of b2c for consumers but what we've built definitely can translate pretty nice I think too it's kind of a b2b model and so that's that's definitely the works so yeah we'll have to talk more about that yeah well Robert it's been great following the progression of coin cube over the years learning about cryptos from you over the years and also just enjoying our friendship yeah I'm really excited to have you on here today and perhaps just wrapping up you can let folks know where they can find you I think you're offering a lot of things people be well-served at least inquire about and get more information so how do they find you yeah sure so coin cube is coin cube I oh that's coin and then cube like the geometric shape coin cube do we're obviously on Twitter and Facebook my personal Twitter is BTC 1982 it's not the year I was born kidding yeah so you can follow me on there I'm not super active on Twitter I'm more of a you know I like to read more than I like to post on there to be completely honest but yeah but I am on there I've been really heads down programming for the last year so my my social life has suffered a little bit but yeah it's good to be back kind of up for air and chat with you and reconnecting so thanks for having me yeah well it's a pleasure to have be on you shared a lot of great information today especially when people are seeing the prices get pounded you mentioned the blood in the streets and really understanding what you're doing and knowing when those opportunities are there gives a lot for folks to think about so thanks again and we'll put that information below so people can click on it and we'll look forward to checking back in again with you soon thanks Chris pleasure

4 thoughts on “CryptoCurrency Market To Revive? – with Robert Allen of COINCUBE”

  1. If you don't own gold AND crypto, you just don't know where you are in space in time. Millennials have SOOOOOO much pain and learning coming their idiotic way.

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