Bull Market or Fake Pump? Crypto Roundtable with Ivan on Tech, Davinci, MM Crypto and Ian Balina



table is it a bull market or fake pump right in the house we have the Vinci head welcome to Vinci Chris with that mm crypto hey guys non-tech nice very good to be here looking forward and approach you help me yeah all right so guys let's start things off right is it a bull market or a fake pump what do you guys think well we got it looks like we're gonna have a little bit more to go right it was kind of gonna be a little bit us should be sideways chalk buying it but by the looks of the chart but you know there seems to be a lot of people trying to get in now and I think my my build past 40 100 really fast but hey look at look at the volumes because the volume is huge it is I think it is a all-time high this year 10 10 billion even above 10 billion so the volume is pretty significant and in that sense I think it's this bump is more significant than the last ones when we just had small volumes and just one candlestick this one to me looks more real and more more genuine so to speak more organic so that that is the difference I see between the Prius pumps and this pump exactly and then this time I mean this more than 10 billion this is only for Bitcoin and if we go back into the last year the last time we had a volume as high as the volume today was I think it was in May or so this this huge fake out so I'm yeah you're right man and for that for the price gains it's always important to have a huge volume backing it and we all know what happened back in the days in May that was a huge pump even though afterwards followed a huge bear market so that's a very good point man and it's it's a positive the positive thing to look at the volume today yeah I agree look at the charts is also having higher lows and yeah the volume is huge best one we've had since May 2018 which is saying something the best in one year this is the best Valiant day and then the coin is now really broken above the moving average right no matter what can come you're basically starting that moving average is now really the new support so I think it's a big day now are we going to the moon I'm not ready proclaim that yeah yeah and generally it feels like the sentiment is getting is getting bury in the crypto community as a whole because we we saw at the Denver conference we saw Neil defconn we saw a lot of people actually quite the positive towards the future we also see a Lightning Network torch on Twitter going wild and people really trying out Lightning Network and quite famous people have also been part of this experiment with the Lightning Network such as CEO of Twitter and people even try to get Elon Musk into this Lightning Network contest so I mean generally people are quite quite positive towards biscone and everything and it feels like community's happy right now in these days and this is not something that I experienced just you know a few months ago so a lot of good sentiment according to me I have to ask you guys what do you see this volume because I'm looking at the bitstamp in Phoenix right and I don't see this kind of a huge volume even on the weekly I'd like to know where you guys are getting these numbers billion yeah that's that's an important point I mean we are we are pulling that numbers from corn market cap yeah you can you can basically pull all the data from there but there's one problem with coin market cap and coin market cap has also some exchanges like I don't know coin bin and and some some exchanges who are really pumping their volume and you never know how much of that volume was actually true volume and how much is washed trading but even if that is happening right assuming that in creating fake balling for a year this is the biggest big volunteer yeah but that besides all that positive things I want to come back to something da Vinci and me talked about I think that mean she was it yesterday day day before yesterday something like that and we actually said that we can't all be above 4100 and there are actually two scenarios if you look at the Elliot wave theory so for example and if we stay below 4100 that would mean we would still be in that third wave and afterwards we needed fourth wave and afterwards another fifth wave with a new all-time low and even though if we go above 4100 that does not mean that any bull market is confirmed it according to that theory and making the assumption that the theory is correct maybe it's not correct but making that assumption that could also only mean that we are in wave number four which is nice because then there's only one last wave number five so it's not all positive but it it's at least more positive than last week saying if yes if we if we go above 4100 then it is confirmed that we and wave number four because wave number four you have ABC and if we don't call above 4100 then it actually means that we are still in the downwards trend of the third wave then there will be a an upwards trend in the fourth wave and then one last final wash out even lower than the previous low which would be very negative scenario so let's all hope that we go above 4100 at least yeah I saw a bit of that stream that you had with you and the rich Kris and what was your conclusion if it is the fact that we will enter the fifth wave what is the bottom in that sense if we if it is Elliot wave theory that applies to this market right now da Vinci maybe that's not true I had two numbers right what is the golden ratio because I did an extension of and I believe the golden ratio for 16 1 point 6 20 what worked out to be about 2400 I think it was and then the the two-to-one like to like to double was I ate like 1800 close to 1,800 1,900 dollars and so yeah it was right on my $1,800 yeah and you know that corresponds to the hyper wave theory as well because I don't know if you guys are aware there is this hyper wave theory by Tyler Jang which he also has his own YouTube channel it's called hyper wave and they also have a fund I think that and they manage wealth for people and so he came on my channel and discussed hyper wave theory which is his model for the current market and so in his view we are in the last wave of the hai program it has seven stages seven different phases and where we are in the seventh one and according to him it will end around a thousand so if both Elliott and hyper wave are poisoning – where is one mm hey maybe it's a it is somewhere there because no model is perfect no model can predict the world 100% but if you see several models pointing to the same number maybe there is something true in that model actually sorry sorry Chris I'm looking at a different model called figure charts and it says a thousand twenty is the bottom and I'm like then again I saw a poison figure chart pointed like fourteen thousand and I was thinking that was nuts says the bottom is in this is the bottom you guys ready to proclaim this is the bottom right this is the fourth wave you said if it's the fourth wave if it should basically mean that there will be a fifth wave afterwards even with an out with a new all-time low so even though according to the theory and according to when we are wave number four then still there would be one last final wash out a fifth downwards trend or a third one but wave number four five and any predictions in terms of time frame for that way da Vinci maybe that's your term ik turn again tonight I think try again you said that every February the market kind of has a mini pump or something like that that's correct that's I was expecting this right I just didn't I was looking for a tray on the Bitcoin price I just could not find one based on any of my my my particular plan trading plans I was like wow this thing just took off and just like I mean I I know people who have trading plans that go by what's it called trend lines but that's not part of my training plan so I couldn't trade this this particular update ticket Bitcoin and I am I'm a little little envious signs many people making now last couple weeks I'm talking about oncology and how that's been pumping I'm not even sure why I think some nets and news and all these other projects so it seems the market is slowly recovering especially out coins yeah I mean that's true let me throw in something controversial for all that theories and we are all also yet mmm crypt or da Vinci we are all always pulling up theories and that's very useful to get an open mind but there are so many theories and maximum may be one of that theory can be true but also one day this true theory will be proven wrong so for everyone out there may be thinking oh yeah this Elliot wave theory is correct or the other one is correct and maybe you should think about whether it's anyways yeah whether anyways bitcoin is low enough to buy because let's say you are applying to one theory and you don't buy in because you're waiting for that last fifth wave to with a new all-time low and let's say this theory is not correct then the price will run away when four more kicks in and you won't have any stake in the game so maybe we should lower have a look at all the theories to get an open mind and be prepared but usually when you don't have enough skin in the game it's good to step a foot in that game buy something and then when it goes lower cost average em down yeah I agree Chris I agree you know what actually I I control you a chart if we do a chart of the Fibonacci retracement you can see that bitcoin is below the seventy eight point six so you're getting a Lincoln from from this last low which was $160 to its high of total to 20,000 they're getting it almost at 80% discount so you're getting it at a really good discount could it go lower yes but you are near the bottom not near the top so you're you're good to buy like cost average it actually good to cost average in starting now don't expect to miracles because you know this is gonna be a sideways chop and it's gonna be brutal it's gonna hurt but if you hold if you're buying holder you can hold you can you can live with it so what are you going to think about the finance chain – is launching their own blockchain oh that one is interesting I'm actually gonna interview cz on my channel in 12 hours it's gonna be awesome and you know by nose chain is coming out and with that also they're decentralized exchange so this is really the point with – chain – number one create a blockchain and number two also launch there's a central as a change but really my question to cz will be how decentralized is it really because it's still not released we still don't know exactly how it's gonna look like how it's gonna work like but listing on balance the centralized exchange will not be free so a tokens will have to pay projects will have to pay and so the question is how is how this entrance is it trillium so I'm looking forward to discussing that with cz and also they will move their bindings token from a theorem to by a nice chain and so the question is will other tokens follow because maybe if you are on Finance chain you get easier these things you get more perks from violence and obviously all coins want to be unbalanced but at the same time we see as cos we see security tokens and who knows how – will position position themselves in that regard which in my view is really the next wave that we see in crypt right now and if an exchange is not thinking about security tokens I think they are missing out long term so all of that is very exciting but is it really decentralized who knows I will try to find out in 12 hours with cesium I mean I think it's the guy's seemed CZ is post about a decentralization way like this we had his long blog blog post something generally be fully decentralized because you're giving away user experience and in terms of could go mainstream he's saying he does not think crypto has to be fully different lies he thinks yes decentralization is good but in terms of making something so easy to use that your mom your dad your friends are not tech savvy you can use it right there has to be some centralization when it comes to its security and other aspects and that frankly actually I kind of agree right because I think to me I think user experience and user interface entry that brings lots and lots of fiction exactly yeah yeah but still you you will have to manage your keys yourself like your phrase I I mean it could be the fact that it is like violence but you actually don't you you have custody yourself over your funds and that's it but that shall take platform is the centralized but you need but all your fans are stored with you but actually not trading engine is essential but who knows that is going to be very ensuring and I do see the point with centralization and also people need for example customer support it's very important like my mom would never use it essential as exchange because it has no customer support yeah and the average people who don't need customer support I also saw this interesting tweet that people are losing their airports you know this Apple thing in in Europe and we expect them to to handle their private keys and you know it's true I have lost my head my air for several times so things to keep in mind for sure I mean I want to come back to that point for the decentralization part I hundred percent agree when you have something decentralized at that point of time then the user interface or the user experience will lack a little bit but when you look at Ida X or ether Delta that was in my opinion it was kind of crap because um they have functions to freeze the fans or something or when the government is after them they can shut down the whole exchange because you have to access it through a domain and so on so in the end and let's say my mother wouldn't really use the decentralized exchange because of the lack of the user interface so fine she can go to coinbase so I see the only value at and is in a decentralized exchange that it's really 100% decentralized even without any entity behind it without a domain where you can access it you have it on your computer and I don't know that that's how I understand to decentralized exchange and yes there is one where you add withholding your own private keys but the biggest where you add with the is with the decentralization and in the end I I don't see any value add and things like Ida X and so on and maybe not even imbalance I laughs – the exchange I'm using it but for the decentralized exchange I will have to check out and I would have to see what functions they have when the sec comes and they can freeze funds how decentralized us that flew to you it doesn't really feel yeah but you know yeah yes or didn't you I just don't say it's several different levels like if you want to be a hardcore well you can use a really central exchange but most people are not there so I think you like different different groups of people that will use different options if you want to be 100% underground no centralized the exchange no centralized authority well you mean in the future you will hopefully have exchanges that do have liquidity and they are completely decentralized which we don't really have right now but the other thing should go ahead sorry yeah as a software developer yes this is this decentralized exchanges are new and this is going to be the hug for the hardcore but I the way I see it going forward in the future because there's going to be businessmen who put together applications on top of the decentralized exchange and they're going to sell those applications that interact with the decentralized changes to those to your mom and your pop and your grandparents and on top of that I've come up I'm working on I'm going to be working on a solution for your to get your grandmother into cryptocurrencies basically by using decentralized authorities that is basically everybody knows somebody that is in this crypto space right yeah yeah that guy I know him he's really smart right and he could take he's a nice guy he's an honest guy he can take care of me and if you can if I could come up with a company that basically manages that the the different of Sur examines the states okay well you want somebody to be your authority for you decentralized Authority your friend across the street he could be your your he'll manage your your private keys and if you lose your keys you can go back to him and say hey listen man I lost my keys right can you get them back for me and and through that system centralized system he will get get back his key get it back his neighbor's keys and that's how I see that working I think where you find somebody that you know that's gonna take care of you basically or it could be a large corporation as well you can do that yeah interesting okay so we're getting some questions from people here I do you guys want taken questions from the audience sure sure sure whoa let's do it you're asking opinions on like always are peos I guess what uh what projects do you like right now in this fake Vegas in this possible big bump besides Bitcoin I'm – I'm like really like – but I don't think – is gonna do well in this fake bump let me take a look at charts quickly shopping for – yeah are you asking for the TA point of view any perspectives were the TA are fundamental okay I mean from the TA point of view we had mmm crypt to reevaluate always on a fundamental point of view even though da Vinci is TA and he joined our team but that was recently if you check that out and I can't can't even cut a tomato so I will stay away from TA but I will still stay deep in for momentum analysis and that's why I mean and we had mmm crypto they are very few coins we really really like like Bitcoin aetherium Manero public permissionless proof-of-work blockchains usually that's what we like at mmm crypto and there are very very few exceptions and it's always the long long run so especially in this bull market it's very hard to tell maybe that's more than something da Vinci is very good at with this ta point of view but for the fundamental point of view it's always the the long-term and then public permission is proof of work and and already gained some network effects obviously that's also very important well if you Bob – right now you have a good possibility of getting a double your money just just at the 38.2 level if it goes to the 38.2 level that's you've already doubled your money if you bought at this point in time right now that doesn't mean you should go run out to buy so – is a possible goodbye now with a good risk return ratio at the moment well I look at the developer community all of us we have all of our different biases or because we have different backgrounds so my background is programming and development so when I evaluate projects I always look at the development community and looking at that to a theorem is number one no question about that when it comes to small contract platforms but euros has been doing well as well with their community of developers and trying to build tools trying to build utilities so it's easier to actually develop the apps on iOS because if you look at he was during the summer it was so difficult to even get started there are so many bugs I mean the network was live but to develop something it was not an easy task and so you see a lot of development on that front just purely marketing from the marketing perspective I think you know just in sound is doing a lot of marketing hassle it's not that yeah I think Tron is is a technical miracle we have been discussing this on my channel many times that you know Tron is really really good at being in the media and this is something that should not be underestimated and therefore I think they are quite successful as well but for me it is the technology that is most important in the long run and although you can pump your coin short term with good media attention long term is all about the tech and from that perspective it is a theorem accept Bitcoin if we're not discussing between wish I'm not because obviously Bitcoin is my favorite in this bear market but if we look at all other coins and also they have Casper they have charging coming out soon I mean the the days I hear right now is 2019 so hopefully it will happen 2019 at least some kind of first version but other than that I mean you don't really see a lot of that interesting activity in other projects from my point of view it is the biggest ten that I mostly follow and look at and in that sense it is the deaf community that gives me the most comfort in projects notes people that now starts taking so I think give me that one is very very undervalued and maybe even yeah and you know looking at loom it is one of these interesting projects that do help aetherium ecosystem as well because loom have what they have done is basically built on top of a theorem but then they also have their own coin and their own and their own network as well but in order to actually build something on the theorem today because of all the scaling issues and nothing really works on this video if you really want to build something but you can't do a side chain you can't do a layer two solution so loom is actually a good example of that a good sign okay so what do you guys think about a Craig rape coming to be mm-hmm that's a good question man i I just saw I just saw a thumbnail in the recommended in the recommended YouTube videos that he is somehow proven wrong but he was proven wrong a long time ago if you use the Wayback Machine and checked some of his comments which he deleted afterwards then you definitely could tell that he's wrong we thought actually about using that wayback machine and making a video about it but then you don't want to mess too much with that Craig Wright has a lot of power but it's a liar man I think I'm not sure if he's under oath but it is I mean that's a serious allegation I just say it was quite funny have you seen the wiki leaks on Twitter WikiLeaks the official account with the blue mark on Twitter tweeted that hey you know serial fabricator Craig Wright is now claiming that he is Satoshi once again so that was quite interesting to see that they actually account for me as an investor I don't really care I mean it's because we can't really know until that person really yeah but all the speculation is kind of exciting right it is drama but so now he's going to the government and testifies or what is the story there because I just heard that he is is it in Australia or where is that happening in the u.s. interesting interesting yeah you know and they and I do agree with you that it is drama it is not that fruitful at the end of the day but still nice to follow people on to hear about it Commission is in the US but I think he found his claim from the UK okay all right if he's testifying in front of Congress man he's putting his life in jeopardy basically the real satoshi shows up he can be prosecuted for lying really about you he won't and it's also the probability that he's dead or that it's a group of people but a multisig wallet and and some Moody said wallet and I don't know so there's a high probability that that he will not never ever come out you know even though it's da Vinci I mean you didn't do it [Laughter] wrong right cuz Bitcoin really has no face what do you think about that you think is good to have a face for project or should it be truly decentralized I think that that that's its USP that it has no face and I think it's good like it is many people say okay there are some troubles in the Bitcoin community we would need something like a leader coming and bringing some some correct order in that in that struggles but I think that's the USP of Bitcoin and I think it's very good to have no face behind it and if he would come out right now and he would have he would be in a very big danger because he's very wealthy but of people who try to kidnap him and get out the private key or something because he most probably has it in a brain wallet so um I don't know I I think it wouldn't be a good idea for him to come even though there are struggles in the developers community Krissy wouldn't have had in the early days of Bitcoin they didn't have like what's it called HD wallet so he would have he had those each of those keys were created on the wall separately at the time and so he would have to have each and every single key in the or the the wallet on that file in order to get to get those those those are those coins back and so if he doesn't have if he lost that wall top that file that's it it's gone they're gone yeah but maybe he's headed in his brain in the brain wallet or something like that you know exactly you can't you can't yeah if he never really had a brain brain wall you see back in the days you couldn't have created a brain wall because that that technology did not exist that point at that point that's why it was only until we added HD to Bitcoin the did that made that possible right because then you could create multiple keys from one key multiple keys from one can because this nimoy phrase is the scene to your wallet and that seed can then recreate all other private keys and so I had at the beginning you didn't have that but also just coming back to the discussion about centralization all projects start centralized in Bitcoin Satoshi was the first to mind the first block he was the first miner I mean it was highly centralized in the early days but then he let it go after a few years and the same is with that is where all projects should be going to words that in the beginning yes it needs to be centralized someone needs to set the tone someone used to drive the project forward but then let the project go so I hope that more and more projects do that and arrive at that stage but right now we still have metallic in the theorem although he says that he maybe will be leaving it for the film price I don't think that would be very great because so many people believe in metallic they think that's metallic is gonna solve everything because he looks so smart and he looks so wondrous I'll dish and so if he leaves I think it would be very bad for the serum price but nonetheless it needs to happen at some point I mean 50 years into the future we can still not have you know metallic being the head of a theorem and everyone is checking everything with metallic so I think it's natural that all projects are very centralized in the beginning but then as time goes on they need to the founders need to let go of them well I think this is still an experiment because never in history in our history have we had like a decentralized system like this where for example can you say that the Internet is decentralized truly decentralized no you've got a bunch of ISPs running the system can you say that any other thing any kind of any kind of asset is decentralized in our existence there's nothing there's not there's no company says you decentralized nothing exists like that so this is still early days experiment one word to see what works and what doesn't in the decentralized space and I look forward to seeing it so speaking of the early days the Vinci take us back then how do you picked up oh I I was running a YouTube channel right the vichy j15 as everybody knows and I was talking about gold and silver and letting people know hey you know what you you got to get out of this horrible rat race system because the monetary system is false and yeah back in 2009 I did you start researching how to create a monetary system decentralized monetary system I just didn't find Bitcoin time and all I found was people talking about how it's impossible to create and so I gave up on it and then somebody mentioned hey what do you think about Bitcoin them like scam I already know that you can't create you can't solve the double spending problem and so I read the source code right and I said I'm gonna show you how it's a scam and turns out it wasn't so I was like oh my god this is going to make people rich if you you can buy for a dollar now right back on March of 2011 Wow I was quite correct interesting yeah I mean I think kind of very fascinating to people who were so early and Bitcoin like they really really believed because people come in now and they think that are late even at the store early in a way but they're really only one big fan was under $1 I mean I just really happen a time machine just kind of see and so at that time did light couldn't even exist or was it only Bitcoin team I think as 20 in 20 yeah of 2011 shortly afterwards after like I think it was like two months two or three months later like Quentin 2011 already yeah yeah yeah yeah I remember I was able to mine it for nothing it was like worth nothing and people were like say yeah this if you missed Bitcoin because it passed $32 and then came back down mr. Bitcoin you should get into litecoin right and people were minding it hoping that it would come up from nothing to something and I at the time I didn't agree with it I wish I had I wish I had didn't mind some of it but I was mining named coin at the time because I felt that main coin had more utility than than just a silver to bitcoins gold right how'd you guys feel about Shirley Lee last year selling on Lake Point because there's rumors now that he may have fought back in and I'm not sure how true these are but if that's the case I mean I think that's that's pretty weird right this he claimed to have sold them because of dude to complicate interest like being the the project leader or named like we tried to me don't know we make sense I feel like you're putting a project in the game sold like 5% below the all-time high that was a very good timing yeah cuz actually I was thinking somebody about a week ago is like rumors are that Mike surely we bought back in and if he did he's like this guy knows something cuz he's so like on at almost the top right and then a week now we're hearing about the market possibly covering and JP Morgan VP and find all the stuff and so maybe like the the Bitcoin oh geez know something I mean that would be great III saw a tweet of Charlie Lee with him with a comparison of a lot of tweets of him of him and he was correct a lot of times back in the days in terms of predicting prices he saw a light Cornelia at the top and also sometimes iam I think in December he said that bitcoin is nearly at an all-time high also before before the crash and he did that a lot of time so that's a good sign yeah when when an OG like Charlie even though that's not very legit if he bought back in then then it's a very good sign maybe I bought back in and like before he claimed to have sold due to conflict of interest I actually at the end of the day it's human nature the timing was perfect now the timing is perfect again to get back in so I mean am I surprised not at all because it is kind of one of these things that I've learned that it is human nature like people will do such things so is it unethical absolutely but could happen absolutely could happen as well and it's also when you expect humans to behave with their human nature you don't become disappointed it is just you know I hope it doesn't happen but you know it's human nature and it's in all situations in life not not only encrypter in this particular situation and so according to humans and human life it is it would it wouldn't be a surprise I'm not an expert on Nash but resistance is about privacy so I would say that is the USP with resistance privacy and the the change but Nash is actually very very good at community building I've seen many many people talk about Nash so they're really really good at that yeah because they are using this referral system now and they're letting our nerves we have other people posting that referral link into our group I also wanted to add something on resistance what what we what we really liked about it and mmm crypto is that they will want at one day when they have enough masternodes and when there's enough hashing power and so on they will put away the entity behind it and truly become decentralized and if that is going to happen I mean we cannot predict the future but if that is going to happen that would be really a great thing and would be way more decentralized than everything we saw on Ida X ether Delta and maybe even by Nance chain yeah and also resistance is an application on your computer so it's not like a URL you need to go somewhere that can be taken down it's an application on your computer and so in that sense I think that is where more and more essential changes will move because as we saw with ether Delta and as we will see I think with other design choice exchanges as well that if you have a website that you rely on a domain name a URL that people visit it's not a good thing from a decentralization standpoint so privacy having its own its own application for the desktop also you have toward integrated as well so not only are you private on the consensus level but also on the network level there those are two different technological stacks and in that sense I think we'll also see many different design changes coming out as well Nash is one of them and bi'ness is also which will launch his test at tomorrow and the competition is very significant when it comes to the excess and the question is will they all have volume will all have users well no some some of them will die out some of them will win so it's good that we have competition is good that we can really test what is the best project down there to the World Economic Forum and and I agree that the resistance will have a significant significant share in the future if they continue down their path that they're planning you know we as Chris said you can't predict the future but I think that resistance has a good good plan I like the federated nodes right to have both an application and federated nodes server nodes that you can install on your computer you can have your own server node as well as as the application itself and yeah I'm 100% with with resistance I don't know about the other one which I've never even heard of what was it called together Nash they regret at it they're like the me oh that's yeah next the most name before I think the next phase is really heating up and for me I really like how they're trying to innovate with the user interface use experience trying to make it really simple like coinbase but I think it really mass adoption lots of things have to really be innovated from the user experience perspective in terms of taking taking away all the friction making it a simple to use and on board people I know when I joined crypto I joined because of coinbase convinced was so supporting use right and there was no point base I mean still be on the sidelines for me it was creating I can remember and it took me like a month and also my co-founders they were also starting with Kraken and it took us like a month or one and a half month to get verified for Tier three that was a horrible situation but we really really wanted to start finally with Bitcoin and that was like 2017 very beginning and we saw everything running away and it was so horrible for for waiting for that verification so we had another experience maybe co-invest what would have been the better idea back in the days I think it would have been really fascinating coinbase I think those plays are still available I think it will really I just was going to say that although we are in the bear market you look at equity is actually looking very good you look at for example chain analysis they just closed another funding round if like a week ago I think it was on the 12th of February and they're working with motion analysis you also see a bit men trying to do an IPO but who knows how that would be because they're losing much a lot of money but still they're a significant player so equity will really balance out the market I think because you can invest in an equity token with Fei security by buying a security token and still be very very high up your portfolio will be high up when all the coins go down so in that sense it will mature the market for sure to me I don't think ously an issue per se because once the company is unprofitable until the end so she took off and they really began making profit later on in their that lifecycle it goes to them really grew was named metric it's to me that made me be having issues but as an investor if you're a VC and you got into bid me your span about hundred ex-father for the security tokens we have a very hard time at mmm crypto seeing that that we will see something something like we saw it in 2017 with the utility tokens because well the utility tokens you had syndicates em you had market makers you had em pump and dams you had some kind of manipulation to pump up all the prices I mean we all know how that structures work and those won't be really possible for stos on that regulated exchanges where you cannot put in some yeah I mean they are legit market makers and shady market make us you cannot put in that shady market makers and I mean there will be for a lot of of those is TOS a lack of volume in the beginning so and also very important you will have a way to to somehow calculate the intrinsic value so let's go to Nash and you you know how much percent of the trading income of the fee income you will get then you can take that income you can project a yearly income and then you can see okay I demand a 20% return on investments or the intrinsic value is five times the yearly income for example so you will have something like a dividend ratio and it will be more easy to to help you light the intrinsic value and whenever it goes way above arbitrage guys can sell it or whenever it goes way below people can buy back in so it will be very hard to make that over valuation for stos which is kind of good because it's legit but for all US with and we are moon guys and it's it's also sad to see that we won't get any like short-term 100 exes you think about it in the equity space stocks right that I've had astronomical gains as well right I know tried a crypto I was trading at spinning 30 stocks right so those possible starts to move over 1 2 3 X 7 for X and like a week or two in the X space right and that's the space that's regulated right so I think I think it's still possible I mean but I don't think it's gonna be as big or as fast as 2017 no yes I like Jess Tio's I just that my problem is that the government likes to crush them and the reason why it's always because they say oh it's to protect you right protect the investor well the investor needs to protect themselves really they need to learn how to protect themselves and they need to listen to people like Chris and mmm crypto who has who goes over the the different SEO s and different I SEOs and shows you which ones to buy and which wasn't not to buy and you need to take responsibility for yourself on what you're going to invest very interesting guys I have an announcement to make Dana that I unfortunately have to go now I have a call right after this but hey you can continue it was amazing hanging out here with you and I hope your viewers enjoyed this en let's do some times in the future so have a great stream continuation of the stream and we'll be in touch guys we'll be in touch man thanks [Laughter] let's see how they how they remove myself oh yeah I think we in you mentioned that I think also in one of your last videos maybe we can talk about just quickly about the JPMorgan coin because there are there are many people saying that there's a huge that has a huge impact on the legitimacy of crypto and yeah maybe this is kind of true but I think we should also talk about the other side so and I think you guys are already oh you guys are very positive towards that news is that correct yes I mean for me I'm positive because I think it's as an entrepreneur and have been case studies of big names you can kind of and get add on when you're trying to sell something without getting partnerships business development right imagine you're watching startup and people say all crypto is dead you tell them well JPMorgan a come a company with a market cap of over 300 billion dollars just like this first crypto currency this month okay can we bring back and split screen some people are asking in the group yeah yeah perfect so right that's that's a huge validator for the space because before all these big companies did they didn't really mess with crypto they did blockchain then they'll say VLT distributed about the technology when crypto was bad the bad stuff right I notice cuz working at IBM they never touched cryptic irsie like it was like no area will talk about blockchain and hyper lecture but it was of a coin okay but get that but now like these big companies are actually coming into the cryptocurrencies space I think it's a huge way wow I'm sorry are you sure the thing they didn't create a another deal to distributed ledger technology crap or blockchain which is actually just a database they are doing is just a permission private blockchain with a stable coin but and I I think Ian your point was also the legitimacy because of the big name of JP Morgan but still I mean it won't have any huge impact for the crypto space at all in my opinion I mean maybe it's what caused the market others I mean it's kind of true but we already have that yeah we already have IBM also developing private permission block chains and there's no Oracle and it has no token right because there are against tokens I mean they do have that partnership with Stella right which to me was was pretty big as well but companies have blood change but in terms of fitting their own coin right I think that's what's really big in terms of decentralization and how useful it is I mean it's just evil really but it's not really that kind of data but because it's JP Morgan doing it right other big players will pay attention now and take it seriously yeah but can the average person use it no no no it's for banks I think I mean for me is this more about wins leverage to get let's focus on what we agree upon so okay legitimacy before for other banks and for other big institutions seeing that JP Morgan is in the space and they are developing their own coin which is still private permission with the variable supply and so on so it's kind of crappy but yes legitimacy that's that's true but on the fundamental point of view for for the crypto space how we like it and why we are here it won't have any impact but I think on this two points we all agree upon correct in January 2018 for me what really made me kind of go all in it's a crypto I got into a period it was around $15 so then etherion announced the theory of enterprise alliance they announced all the big names Microsoft Citibank JP Morgan what and the price went to like 30 then $40 and I was like wow I doubt my money in like a week and a half I said guys you know what celibate like this is this is big here this day right now whether or not I mean they didn't really do much right but that stamp of approval in a way right maybe more confident but also made the market more confident material I think that's really what began the kickstart for a theory and then the I see a way of kind of began taking off as well so I think you have to have those kick-starts those think that really kind of push you for whether or not that actually have utility in terms of technical Oh a decentralization standpoint I don't think it matters but if they get people excited and get more people into the space then I think it's a way now I can remember what what us what brought us into the market was I think it was first the the happening then we read a bit about it and then it was Japan making Bitcoin to a legal payment in their country and me personally coming from an economic point a background I really thought okay if I'm legitimist through it and then I got more into it but yes I got your point you you frustrated me a little bit on that point that it gives more legitimacy and for some people it it will it will lower the barrier to entry for the crypto space may be seeing institutions like JP Morgan developing their own coin but I still want to stick on it that it's it's it's not giving any value to all of us as investors in crypto yes yeah all right I just news which is to get people all excited about crypto and cause the price to move and that's just some waste really cuz like you should not be running after chasing after coins that have gone up so high like for example like coin please people don't buy buying that that's already too late that's like to jump on the on the da Vinci mmm crypto a piece where you check the coins out which I at the bottom I bet I don't I don't want to I don't want to shell any anything here take what you guys think about – Fox bet because BitTorrent did really really well on that and now people think like finance is trying to kind of take over the ICEA market and I think ratios it's just incredible it's just incredible to see how all-powerful they are they are taking that rotten ico space which is completely damaged and they are still able to fill up the half cap immediately to make it 10x possible like for BitTorrent it's crazy and for fetch which has a too high hard cap in our opinion Bay by the way they will most probably fill the heart kept within like seconds or minutes even though it's way too high and maybe they will even be possible able to with their market make us with all the liquidity providing and with with with the shortcuts and tricks they are using there it might be even able to make fetch a good return on investment in the short term and it's crazy to see that I think I agree on you it's a very good move of them they they are making a lot of money with it and not only with the race where where they most probably get a percentage from maybe not em but a hundred percent they make a huge profit within the trading fees and afterwards also and maybe selling their own stake and on their own exchange without any trading fees so it's very very intelligent it's a very smart move of Finance yes – watch where it is like the new yeah we need a second confirmation I drew because patrollin was the first move of we we need fetch to perform well as well and then we can say okay this is really really am yeah kind of sustainable already yeah I also fetch the hardcamp is too high but I think balance is powerful enough to pump them as well because they need a few testimonials to make even more ICS coming to them and asked him for being able to launch on the launch pad so I'm pretty sure sees that once the first I don't know three four or five to be a success and he will put all his power in and push the button on all of them it's very sad to see but he is very powerful men and I'm pretty sure there will be a success not saying that we will we won't invest in to fetch because the hard cap is too high you have to stick to your principles but they might have a good return on investment twenty j15 is my youtube channel also I'm part of Chris's mmm crypto channel as well so you can find me there as well thanks joining us men thanks for joining us we were nine people now we are ten people it's so nice to have that Vinci in our team he like he's tripling our value immediately it's so nice to have you that when she thank you so much for joining us man glad to be part of the team that was back in the days I mean me Kiro and Anoop we are the co-founders and we started investing in crypto and then the ICO space came up and that you you made some analysis on Icee Icee else as where we were watching you as well and we had approach to it hm of the the NEBOSH your approach was great but we still had our own approach and the numbers showed that our approach was also very great but we kept it privately and one day we just said okay let's let's make it public and then why we came up with the two hundred eggs and and some other ICL's like one shine and so on and a lot of people were joining us and then we started from to switch from German to English content and we made it bigger and bigger now we are where we are ten people at mmm crypto DaVinci having joined us as well as a CBO and yeah that's basically the very short story of mmm crypto and immune we met already like four or five or five times yeah yeah first time second time second time Berlin third time Malta fourth time Davos Switzerland World Economic Forum the world is so small maybe you can start with it it doesn't I found it a very one big party movers and shakers in the finance and they were just hard enough having a good time right there were some serious meetings and stuff like that but you know everybody was looking forward to the after parties that's what I know I mean we also enjoyed it and we came there always at like 1:00 p.m. oh so we checked out one or two small conferences then we had a lunch and then we went to the party but the party was really valuable because it wasn't only there for drinking alcohol you was also there with having a small chat with the CEO of Goldman Sachs for example I mean it's so unreal it's crazy to talk to those people and even though you are not on the same level I mean I'm Goldman Sachs guy he's not a billionaire so he's not very very you money wealthy but he has so much power so many people there you are in a room where the majority of the people are at least at your level or higher and I think that's a very great place to be because this this birthday they just pull you up and we really I mean I can I can recommend everyone going there who's able to go there who's getting an invitation yes I wanted to reteach them Janet Yellen asked her what do you think about gold is it just is central bank's torn yet because of tradition oh man it's true definitely a life-changing experience reminds me of like first we talked about that so I won't open summit and I met people in crypto for the first time in person even who are doing this for multiple years he became crypto millionaires and being able to just have drinks with then I didn't have dinner with them was just really fascinating because you could picked in mine and just see how their they were right and same thing in Davao is not for crypto but just more about other people were successful in other space I mean they definitely was a big black Saint scene but even other people who are just regular investors VC is kind of equity and even even me seeing that the CEO of Goldman Sachs being a DJ at the party that's pretty cool alright it's very inspirational just being around great people great people really motivate you to kind of keep on a sprang for great things definitely I agree I agree also let me throw in something for everyone watching man make sure you smash up the like button man it's crazy everyone should smash it up man we need a one-to-one ratio of viewers to likes guys come on it's for free the content is for free and smashing up a like button is also for free guys yeah alright going up already perfect guys thanks well I just want if we're gonna close it off of the day I want to mention that I've updated our website for Pandora's wallet last week and we've also updated the software and we're gonna be looking to start selling the software very very soon so and have over 50 currencies definitely by the end of this month well Pandora's wallet is what allows you to to connect with exchanges and trade with the exchanges whilst keeping your private keys on you you hold in the private keys because one of the problems I had because I have over 300 different currencies is that I couldn't find although the wallets for these these currencies and even if one I did avoid when I try to install ten of them on my computer my computer run like really really slow so I decided to create this this wallet that would have access to all the currencies and still allow me to have access to my mom hold your private keys and trade with the exchanges because that's very important to me I'd want you to be able to trade those using the little old lady style of trading and so that's why I created this wallet and so basically I created it for me but if you guys want to use it to that's great yeah you can basically I mean everyone watching here you is watching on YouTube you can just go to the search bar put an mm crypto mm and then crypto in one word and you will basically find us right ahead we also have an ongoing collaboration with da Vinci j15 who is joining our team we will have the next video coming up very very soon where we we will pull up some TA some fundamental analysis some coins which are probably a good buy right now at lower level or so very very interesting content guys with I don't know like sometimes 20 30 40 50 60 thousand views so make sure you join our channel as well make sure you join the ian's channel Ivan on Tech's channel da Vinci j15 channel and also our channel at mmm crypto so that's everything I have to say and join our telegram I think is in a way right I think we're towards the end right I'm saying wait we're going from wave three four to five right so but I think the times are getting better right people get any more optimistic which is there is good right so we're we're close to the bottom wherever you think about it means we would be getting close to it it's the legs if you guys think there's free content and we'll see you in the moon right we're going back to the moon again guys and come here

43 thoughts on “Bull Market or Fake Pump? Crypto Roundtable with Ivan on Tech, Davinci, MM Crypto and Ian Balina”

  1. Hacker hamzeek is the best in hacking, he helped me to hacked 10 bitcoin contact him via text or whatsapp +12562721435 ,

  2. Not a bull run! 😀 just buy more Bitcoin! maybe even some NTS (from the Nauticus Exchange) they're the exchange with the lowest fee ever this month!

  3. youtube is full of these experts, wining old boys getting wet over volume and 200 sats. im selling and buying bach when we hit the next low and thats 1800…its all washtrading people!

  4. If the content WAS exceptional THEN you would have more likes…but the content wasnt that great…sorry…less likes for the same old stuff….show us how to get to the money and how to get it and you'll get more likes.

  5. I liked question from Davinci – where do u guys see those incoming volume? But no one has an answer!! Just wonder if anyone knows where to get these data?

  6. Why can’t you guys get together more regularly and bring suppoman / sunny decree in as an extra bonus 👍🏽

  7. IAN what do you think about the gambling dapps, eosbet now got more txs and paid more out than any other dapp? But its covered nowhere.

  8. Great video Ian!!!
    I feel the market is about to pull out of the bear downtrend.. and I agree, higher lows are inbound!!! It will correct as always but I feel we are going to see higher and higher lows from the upcoming corrections!

  9. Phhhh…. it seems every crypto price increase that doesnt "moon" is a fake pump… and every decrease is whale manipulation… when really its just normal market fluctuation…
    This is right where crypto speculators show their market noobiness…

  10. 589+ is coming. It would be a mistake not having a xrp position….love all the theories but I think the mempool will hold the btc price down. Also compare lighting side chain vs ILP. It is no contest. The lighting network has yet to prove it self. Btc will die if it does not improve.

  11. When governments say that they "want to protect the investors", they really mean that they want to protect the financial system and its stability. The governments doesn't care about an individual's mistake, but if many individuals collectively do the same mistake and lose a lot of money, it could lead to financial instability if there's a significant amount of money involved. In the end, the governments are all about protecting themselves, their positions and power and their system.

  12. Just a correction, investors want to dump as low as possible before regulation is approved then bull market and not before

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