Blockchain Brothers – SwissBorg: “Data = new global currency, utility tokens vs. security tokens”

Dear crypto community and blockchain
buddies across the globe welcome back to Cryptonites, the no BS blockchain
channel, built with the community for the community and today I have another
amazing guest, the co-founder and CEO of SwissBorg but also my little brother
awesome to have you bro so I’m gonna start right away with
a really weird story and I don’t know if you remember this very clearly but it
marked me deeply and it’s really connected to what’s happening as of
today I remember you’re about eight or nine years old
we’re in the kitchen in the South of France, Cagnes sur mer, right. it was about
dinnertime and at one point you looked at me and you said you asked me Alex do
you know what a CEO is and you’re testing me and I really heard of it but
I couldn’t actually tell you exactly what it meant so I was like yeah of
course it’s a boss I mean you’re like no what’s the acronym mean and I was like
and I didn’t know and you taught me the word CEO was how old were you at that
time I don’t know very young for sure it’s like 13 so probably 9 or 10 or
something that’s right but very funny because if you fast-forward 20 plus
years you’re a CEO of one of the biggest FinTech blotching companies out of
Switzerland right? So if you don’t mind telling it what led you to that route
it’s a very fascinating yeah I mean it’s a funny thing I don’t know I think so it
came for the character maybe because you know our mom called me Cyrus which
was obviously one of those great kings of the kings of Persia no but more
seriously I think so like yourself and myself we never you
know found that whatever position we were in in the country
we’re not like sufficient enough we were not happy enough of what we were given
to us so we always tried to find rather you know a new life or a new meaning to
it right and I think so it comes from that factors
right after graduating from you know Business School started working private
banking which was cool enough then shifted to you know do a start-up which
like didn’t work that well it was mainly doing arbitrage in indifferent you know
gaming industry then went to hedge funds and I was like okay this is really cool
especially the fact that we were really doing the machine learning and you know
really making sure to optimize our portfolio through trading algorithms so
that was really cool you know I was really happy that tech was getting
involved into my and my job but it’s always the same thing you know
optimizing portfolios to you know essentially make wealthy people or
wealthy companies essentially you know wealthier and I get to a stage in my
life you know where I was like thirty thirty two I was like you know how long
I’m still gonna continue doing this I mean I don’t like really money per se
you know I still live with Anthony as a flatmate you know something that you
know I think I’m quite humble people and I’m humble humble person sorry and
people know that and I think so I got into the FinTech space and realized that
you know how can we create you know wealth management for everyone right and
we started to look at you know the Robo advisors and it’s okay let’s do a Robo
advisor then we quickly realize myself is that being a Robo advisor is great
but you’re just changing the front end of the thing right you’re creating these
portfolios for different people but the back end is the same still old
infrastructure and quickly realized that with blockchain everything would change
and and why did I become a CEO I think so and at SwissBorg, to answer your
question I think it was just that uh I didn’t find a company that suited me and
I think my vision could have been elaborated in a better way and I thought
that well you know let’s take let’s let’s take the adventure and do it by
myself and and then find other smart people that will you know bring this
idea to to to actually action and and and make it happen create a real
ecosystem out of it yeah I remember even as a kid and growing
you always told me I will be a CEO one day eventually great do you believe that
the fact that you kept on repeating it and creating some sort of self
affirmation did that help you reach that I think it’s like you know a myself we
we always think that visualization is it’s the number one thing that thing
makes happen right when you when actually you create something or you do
something it always was created in your brain before right so you never you
always do something it’s the second time you’re already doing it because you
already thought about it you dreamt about it and you you you build thoughts
out on it and I think so yeah for sure you know as a kid I probably thought
about it a lot and you know I I wanted to recreate a new world which would be
make more sense to what I thought the best utopic type of world would be a
crazy thing I remember visiting your apartment in Switzerland for the first
time where you’re sharing rooms with Anthony so like you said in a more of a
humble apartment right not fancy at all but one thing that really marked me were
all the swissborg stickers and drawings and signs from the kitchen to the toilet
to the bathroom why did you want to do that what was your intent of having like
SwissBorg and this was before the ICO right I mean I think so yeah I like I’m
a hoodie I’m a t-shirt underneath me and so gonna have boxers that you know you
know that control your wealth and protect your assets I want a pair of
that as boxers you know yeah I think so again it goes the same ideas that you
you have to you know visualize all the time and think about you know our token for example which is you know the Paramount and real the key American
system if you you don’t think about it if you’re not crazy if you’re you don’t
have some insanity or some ludicrous in you you you you’ll never make something
happen you know but get Steve Jobs and and all the great people they they don’t
think about their their products or their company they live it and it’s
really important that one has to live it through and you know how you really have
to bring hard work but always just think about how you could do something better
tomorrow within your ecosystem and I think so yeah the stickers ever
where on my doorbell to the toilet seats it just makes me whenever I’m somewhere
and I’m not thinking about so it’s more well then swissborg is back again
and I’m making sure that my thoughts are will or well positioned to to create
something better yeah so do you believe that by having all these signs and
stickers and posters in some way kind of brainwashed you on a subconscious level
so that you wouldn’t lose focus of that a major vision that you had I mean it’s
not a brainwash it’s more like a reminder I would say but then after you
know whether when you’re you’re living into something and you think about all
the time and you see those small signs but you don’t see them so often after
right it does help to sort a certain point but you don’t you don’t only
concentrate on those locals that are around the room and it’s true that you
may be in the bedroom there’s maybe too much of it I think so it just reminds
you you know what’s your mission and and and and it’s a little bit like a
uniform you know you could you could be a policeman without you having a uniform
right but when you probably look at your badge then you’re like okay I’m a real
policeman right but you don’t need that not ever you need policeman has a badge
you know and it becomes a part of your identity yes exactly yeah it’s like a
superhero red cap but you could still be you know you know super numb without
having that game yeah that’s really cool because as you know my favorite book is
Napoleon Hill Think and Grow Rich and exactly what he suggests is what you’ve
been doing so Auto suggestion repeating that you’ll achieve something
visualization and seeing yourself in a situation and right and belief right
very very strong it seems very aligned with what you’ve done in the past
fast-forward a little further I see Oh huge success one of the biggest
high heels out of Switzerland right and one thing I want to ask you is as of
today and recently in recent years actually no in the past year many people
at blotching conferences have a big headline saying ICOs are dead
welcome STOs or some sort of thing related to how utility tokens are not
worth anything ICOs were the past how do you feel about those type of comments
personally like Anthony years other people always talk about this
brilliant book of sapiens right everything everything sunbaes on you
know valuation whatsoever is based on whatever thing people think it is it’s
about right so if think people think that you know what’s being working the
past will always work in the future most it’s hard to say that that’s the right
model until today you know for the last hundred years it’s great to have shares
it’s a it’s it’s something that people have been backing being investing in it
and for them you know they feel confidence the fact that if you have a
security token you have a share you potentially could have dividends and
you’re you’re backed by essentially you know a console you know market authority
behind it that says yeah that actually belongs to you well that continued to be
like that I don’t know I mean first like this thing about dividends I mean I
don’t know any good stock that you almost give dividends I mean there’s a
few of them but you know in the technology sector you know most stocks
never get any dividends and we’re not from you know the the voting part yeah
it’s cool to vote with shares but you can do that with utility tokens as well
so the main difference between having a share and how old it and holding a
utility token is that one you could really use within the system and it’s
based on trust it’s called utility token and the other one is you know
essentially it’s it’s if there’s any problems you could then ask the market
authority or or in that country where it’s listed to say okay this really does
represent myself but at the end you know is it better to have a share of
Microsoft or is it better to have the possibility in the early 90s to get
access to the whole ecosystem Microsoft this is their Windows or if it was you
know the office pack or all the new technology that’s going through it
that’s that’s the question that people have to I think so answer and and as we
see today that the biggest valuation companies are all going the ones who
don’t have you know really shares it’s more about valuation based on network if
you’re going for term what’s up with 17 billion dollars they’re not making money
to snapchat which is twenty five billion dollars IPO which at the end was not
making money other but had it my network behind it and that’s what
utility tokens have it has a massive network behind it so kind of what you’re
saying if I could summarize that is with the Microsoft products thing that would
be a utility token that would give you access to like you said Microsoft 360 or
or all the different software office etc the operating system yeah exactly so do
you need a share or do you need to use older technology you know and that’s the
thing and maybe that technology today is not worth much but maybe tomorrow as
you’ll be adding a service in products maybe that utility token could give you
like you know a real ride and and and and create something great out of it and
not just a pure speculation it’s actually it’s a speculation a company
that is well with a product and as well maybe something as creating a better
vision and a better world are there cases where you would like to
own both the equity token and the utility token like any companies that
you can think of where you like you love the company but you also love the
products yeah I mean if the company I mean why not I mean III think that the
end usually token is a better thing because you know I believe that you know
essentially you don’t need to trust a government if it goes bankrupt or you
don’t need to trust a government to say that’s your share you know if you’re
investing into a network you trust or not work right so but if tomorrow like
yeah I mean why would I have a Tesla share well I allowed for for four
reasons first because Ellen was fucking awesome second is that the fact well
Tesla it’s a great stock that I bought a long time ago and it was always always
happy to write have a nice ride with it third reason is that well is a great
product behind it right there’s great cars so you know that could be read okay
where I could use it and obviously he’s resolving a problem that you know
doesn’t resolving a problem that is that’s really great and the mission is
completely lined with it so that that that could be a reason why I’ll be
investing in a sheriff examples love him right Elon Musk, he’s like a superstar
isn’t he he’s like a living God so if you if you would love the CEO the face
of the company the company itself and the products you would love to own both
you Utility and equity tokens eventually
there’s another analogy what do you think about this so Anthony was telling this
the other day and in terms of utility tokens I loved his gym analogy has he
told you about the terminology before not sure
so yeah the gym analogy for you to Lee token for me is I mean I think told me
other day and and we talked about it and really geeked off a little bit and for
me it’s a really cool analogy it’s kind of like when you buy utility token
you’re buying a membership at a gym that gives you access to discounts maybe for
smoothies and you can use all the machinery and equipment but the exciting
part of the utility token is if that gym is very successful the concept and other
gyms grow the valuation of your membership goes up so eventually if I
move to another area or not stop using the gym I could sell my membership at a
higher price that I bought it and I could actually not only have used the
gym for all that time for free but make money right isn’t that it’s what do you
think about that yeah I mean that’s exactly I mean you know if you have a
multiple utility tokens such as ours as teaches be token you know you each time
you’re bringing in a product and a service and you’re you’re essentially
growing the ecosystem you have a token that could be used rather than staking
in rather than you know paying it so you’ll have more and more valid that
goes to it which is really good you know what you could you could as well as
willing to share though again it’s not there just a main difference again
between the share and a utility token is that one is backed by you know
centralized government though they want it’s based on a trust that you have with
a network and well you don’t not one or the other is better it’s just that it
depends you know where you’re putting your trusts and if you really want to
use that token with an ecosystem or just want to be a passive investor and if you
really want to be a strong believer in crypto I think so you need to use crypto
you don’t need to invest only in crypto but actually need to use it you know
it’s great to buy have Bitcoin you know has a store of value but the best thing
to do is to actually to buy a Bitcoin and start using it if not it’s just
gonna be another investment you know investment vehicle which is good enough
is not the main thing the main thing is to use a technology and not actually to
just invest into absolutely their pros it like you said there are pros and cons
to both utility and security tokens personally I agree with you the multi
utility token for me is more exciting but everyone has their own preference
there’s one topic that I really want to ask you about side because this I know
this really is deep into your heart recently it’s the DAO right and I know
you talked a lot about shareholder centric versus community-centric
recently do you mind elaborating a little bit on that I know I mean so I
mean you know there’s two different models right there’s the the do model
which has no sovereignty and and has a strong alignment and then you have the
regular limited company and we were in in a world in 20th century where you had a
king with CEO and maybe Queen, the board and then you had users and people
were being shoved up products and services and essentially users didn’t
have a word to say whatever they bought or do or wanted then we got to a new
stage where you still had the king and the queen and essentially you had the
users but you had users as well that could starting to have peer to peer
services like Uber all this uberization where you had actually taxi drivers and and as well Airbnb hosts for different apartments or houses and yeah
a lot of different these platforms of ubers and I think so that’s a great
model but the thing is that very often you don’t the user doesn’t get rewarded
as much as he can like the first uber driver we don’t know who he is but he
actually essentially feeded the ecosystem and he did he get a great
reward out of it not much right we’re on the other hand if you were one of the
first ubirr investors you probably had like you know you’ve
you know probably 10,000 percent investments and that’s one one thing
that doesn’t make so much sense on the other side is that very often when we
have this king in this queen and then you have these
for investors in the beginning they’re very fine about you know humor Airbnb
doing they’re launching their products and making so much revenue but then very
often what happens in every investment in club or any investment VC they start
to flip their positions and they need to have stronger valuations in order to
have stronger valuations they very often needs to essentially drive their company
through product service and really make sure that it’s you’re really squeezing
out all the juice out of that company and so it’s really monetizing the
maximum of their products and then you you see very often that there’s a
misalignment between the users and as well the shareholders and the founders
of the company they’re trying to please both of them but at the end it’s very
hard it’s rather you’re you know you’re extracting the juice and giving it all
back to your shareholders and you’re creating like not as good products and
as well you know making the the price is even higher
what are they taking for example from the taxi drivers and and therefore there
is a misalignment and very often what could happen is that those same users
that loved to be on uber are gonna go on a new platform because they’re not
incentivized actually to stay right and and that goes on and on and on and on
whereas an idea like for Bitcoin or different other deals like aetherium you
know if you’re if you’re developer if you’re a user if you’re whatever your
role is within within the de oh you’re completely aligned and and that has a
very strong difference in terms of philosophy you really have this
meritocracy that that that is it’s unique and it’s based on technology and
it’s based on what are you contributing towards the DAO and I think so that is a
very winning model is a moral type of tribal model that works much better and
there’s no king and queen and there’s no shareholders because everyone is at the
end of shareholder yeah I’d the misalignment part that
you’re talking about I think is the critical part isn’t it like going from
shareholder centric where at the end of the day if they’re shareholder centric
they will always favor the shareholders over the customer or the end-user yeah
do you believe as of today that with spork is truly community-centric
and I know these words are really important to you because that was in the
very first white paper do you do we deserve to use that word community
century yeah I think so we know we always put upfront our community I mean
right after our ICO last two months and after we had like it or your first
referendum and is I think so it’s a great thing you know it’s just yesterday
with someone from LA to Kenya saying how cool and how how empowered you feel
about being able to vote what was the future sake of our of our company and
and our de o as well so the the great thing as I said he said he’s like it’s
awesome because I voted for the mobile app and we just launched her mobile app
yesterday it’s a community app not the wealth app that people want probably but
it’s still the first community it’s really scream easy output is really
awesome and that enables us even to swarmin even more so you know we hundred
percent believe that the community will always dominate the model and it’s very
Swiss based because in Switzerland we’re only the only the one real democracy
I think so in the world. We’re actually you know the individuals have more
importance than anyone else there’s no big politicians that rule the world or
that ruled the country there’s no real you know president that takes the
decisions it’s actually the the citizen itself and I think so every country
should be led like that and even more every organization you know the funny
thing is when it came to that referendum right where we had to vote between the
desktop or mobile version right you’re not gonna believe me but I voted for the
desktop version so we’re working were there from the very beginning but the
community voted for the mobile app and thank God they chose the mobile app
because there’s so many desktop exchanges or are ways to accessing
cryptocurrency what I mean much faster through this table that was my point but
hey I’m very happy that we have X community app and it’ll be very happy
we’ll have the wealth app quite soon but I do think you have a really good points
that you know 25,000 people within Swiss board community not only funded the
company but also made the most or indecision so there is some sort of
community centric approach so that’s that’s very very cool there’s one more
thing you often talk about control your wealth so that’s one of the tag lines
that you love the most why control your wealth everyone talks
about how the blockchain is the trustless protocol or it’s a
relationship of trust thanks to technology rather than revolving on
human error your human flaws but why control your wealth why use you know
obviously blockchain is resolving a lot of problems as reducing intermediaries
it’s providing more transparency it’s bringing more accessibility which is one
of the greatest thing but controlling your wealth is extremely important if
you’re not in control of yourself we’re not in control of of your purpose you
will always fail and every company today we are really reluctant to actually
control what we’re doing right we’re all on Facebook we’re all providing our data
and I love Facebook by the way and then we realize that we’re becoming products
and that’s ok till maybe 2019 but maybe in 2020 or 25 that’s not gonna be okay I
mean if you want to give publicly your data that’s cool but why not selling it
and and well why not getting at least rewarded like through steam it for
example which has you know really a great way to reward people through their
through their social media platform and I think so
one of the main competence of block chaining why it’s so strong it’s
actually because we could control that data we could actually be the masters of
of that data and and as exactly what we want to do at Swissborg we want to make
sure that you’re not buying into this fund you’re actually buying into an
industry and buying into this and see you should be you know making sure that
you’re having old underlyings within that industry and and on the longer run
you have to make sure that you have you know control over your your your
ahlet’s and that will go for everything regarding data because data at the end
it is today what’s called the most valuable thing in the world
every company today that is in the top five or top ten is only about data it’s
not about commodities it’s not about finance it’s like about data itself and
and that’s where the value is and and that’s why we have to make sure we’re
controlling our wealth and our well for me is just data straight oh yeah that’s
really interesting you you tend to have this I think since you’re a kid and
since we were kids you always had that eye that vision of what’s gonna happen
you remember breakdance you remember yeah you’d call a new move and then a
year after in a battle we would see that move and you’re like oh shoot Cyrus
called it obviously you did many things in the past that I’ve seen you know when
you called me up to buy a cerium in 2016 it was at $8 a cm I didn’t listen to
unfortunately which is a stupid move but you have a tendency to see things before
they come and one thing I remember you told me that’s really important for you
and yeah I don’t think you’ve actually mentioned this in in a public setting
before but you want to monetize data so your dream is to create a wealth
management platform where people no longer need money to invest can use
their own data is that possible or just a dream of yours it’s totally possible
it’s it’s it’s exactly I mean this is this is not officially what we’re gonna
do but most probably just talked about it so in our wealth and our concern in
community app we were able to forecast if things were going up or down well one
of the main thing we want to create is a swarm indicee so people will be able to
say if he’s going up or down and bays on you know the 10,000 or the 50,000 people
that will be forecasting on a daily basis we will have some very good people
that will be able to predict it in a very good manner and making sure that we
the daily basis we try to see who are the best of these guys so base on that
which there anyway is doing because they want to know if they’re investing or not
we will create a swarm index and and that swarm index will be data just
people clicking on it and if they’re part of that swarm index
we’ll then obviously you know reward them and they’ll be part of our platform
where people will be able to copy that in this year or buy into that industry
and each people who will be part of that committee of that swarm indicee well
they’ll get rewarded and that’s a very fair way just to say okay is it going up
or down it looks like easy question obviously but if you answer more than
51% of the time right that means you’re very smart or you’re very lucky but on
the long run that means probably you’re very smart so that’s a very good way to
monetize your own data which which until today it was very difficult to do that
and going for will have more and more you know consumer behavior in terms of
you know financial industry and you’ll be able to monetize that end and and
same with other different social media platforms I’m very I’m very sure that
soon is that you want to get your advertisement well yeah well then you
know you they’ll have to pay you X amount to make sure that your your your
you’re actually attribute and you’re getting rewarded now that’s really cool
because it’s a wealth management without needing wealth exactly so that is
definitely hopefully the future will will lead that way because you know if
someone doesn’t necessarily have lots of wealth and but they have access to data
right hopefully they can be a part of this and not it already goes with the
same philosophy that you have in bounties right you know two percent of
our token supply was distributed to bounties because a lot of awesome people
around the world helped us for translation and helped us to push you
know on on Twitter whatsoever did some different videos and and you know that’s
that’s a fine way as well is that you don’t need to start – going forward not
gonna be but we won’t be have to be millionaires to become multi
millionaires or what we would have to be have $100,000 worth of whatever it
should be to be a millionaire you could start going forward more and more easily
because you’ll have all the information you’ll have all the possibility to get
access to it through blockchain and and through different ecosystems and LG just
if you’re if you want to be wealthy you could be wealthy and in a lot of
different ways that’s really really cool one last thing the other day on the
telegram chat this was for chat there are a few people who are calling
the blockchain brothers how do you feel about that nickname for the two of us
yeah blocks your brother it’s awesome I mean I mean like hey we’re brothers so
block is nothing was creative but I love it yeah it is a good sound right
yeah the baby brother she beats me time back in the day where the b-boy brothers
and now you know luxury luxury brothers good thank you so much brother for this
awesome alright guys so don’t forget to download the community app, an app where
you can forecast learn and earn up to half a million dollars of BTC by just
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11 thoughts on “Blockchain Brothers – SwissBorg: “Data = new global currency, utility tokens vs. security tokens””

  1. Fazel brothers you rock! I do totally agree with Cyrus regarding Multi Utility Tokens, if the tokenomics of the ecosystem are well thought out, the benefits long term will be much more. You're benefiting twice as user/client and hodler. Thanks for the great video!

  2. I enjoyed the whole video:) thanks ? the only thing what I would like to ask and missed in this video is your journey to Swissborg As brothers. Who hired you ? Was it your Brother? And how did you feel leaving your company to join your brothers ? What aroma for the waterpipe did you use ? Looks like you aren’t a regular hookah smoker ?

  3. The Fazel Blockchain Brothers rockin' the Cryptonites… very interesting to hear the genesis of Swissborg. Great content.

  4. Loving the one-on-one interviews! This one was very special. Nowhere else can I find this level of quality insight into the industry. Keep it coming!


    00:30 A 9-year-old “CEO”! LOL
    1:37 A financial journey from hedge funds to algo-trading:
    4:26 Visualization helped me create a new world
    5:17 An obsession, fully-immersed, and customized underwears
    6:58 Creating your own identity
    8:25 The Death of utility tokens, the Birth of security tokens
    9:45 Most tech stocks do NOT offer dividends
    10:02 Are current valuation models dying?
    11:30 NOT all utility tokens are pure SPECULATION…
    11:59 So, Utility tokens or Security tokens? Both?
    13:14 Love the CEO (the people), the company (values and mission) and the products (value)
    13:25 A multi-utility token can be BETTER than stocks or equity
    14:26 It is not just about INVESTING in Crypto but about USING it
    16:02 Shareholder-centric vs. Community-centric
    20:03 The term “Community-centric” needs to be earned
    22:23 The REAL definition of Blockchain: CONTROL YOUR DATA and CONTROL OUR WEALTH
    24:30 DATA is the real GLOBAL CURRENCY
    27:48 Wealth management w/o having WEALTH!
    25:00 Cyrus’ superpower: Vision
    25:51 The Future of Investing: Investing WITHOUT money!!
    28:51 Blockchain brothers? LOL
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    35:49 Bitcoin RECAP & FUN FACTS

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