Bitcoin Mining UNPROFITABLE, Nasdaq Crypto Exchange?



and we're alive guys welcome to another episode of good morning crypto only here only on Ivan on.take we are of course live-streaming we're broadcasting live straight from Stockholm Sweden and we do the show each and every day at 8 a.m. Central European summer time today is all about mining we will start by discussing Bitcoin mining and really how Bitcoin mining is affected during the bear market and how the different players within the mining community are reasoning and what kind of positions they are taking because you definitely see strong business moves from some players when we're also going to talk about Nasdaq and the rumors that they're buying a crypto exchange and basically becoming a crypto change themselves and then of course if you have questions if I see good questions in the chat I will take them as well but guys it's amazing to see here welcome to the show good morning hope you have a great day and before we start I want to remind you if you haven't check out business that I won't take that comm where we teach you how businesses use blockchain how traditional infrastructure is now being incorporated with blockchain infrastructure and if you buy the course before October you get 50% off because the course is launching in October so guys business that I will take calm and that being said let's get into the markets and take a look looking at the markets we have the following situation I can actually refresh this this going minus 3% mysterium taking a huge blow again 10% under $200 ripple minus 2.5 percent between cash six-point-eight looking at the big winners no big winners really cybermiles 5% that cash cash yeah but we had big losers Aurora Dan tikona last was I think Aurora was one of the big winners yesterday so seems like a pump and um anyway guys the thing I really want to focus on today is mining and just discussing the cost of mining because you realize that mining can be very difficult for some people but also very easy for some people and the cost of a Bitcoin is also so different depending on who you I mean it depends on your electricity how much do you pay for your electricity it depends on your hardware how efficient your hardware is in using that electricity that it gets and how many hashes can produce per second and a bunch of others things such as taxes I mean some countries have good taxation environment for mining because they really want to want to push mining some countries have subsidized mining indirectly subsidized mining this is some something many people don't think about but if you look at for example Kazakhstan so in Kazakhstan the state is actually subsidizing the electricity for its people and of course miners move to Kazakhstan because they get subsidized electricity from the government but of course the government wants to subsidize it for the people not for the miners but how do you really solve this problem now that you have miners moving into your country and using your subsidized electricity because you cannot raise prices that is impossible because your people cannot afford market prices of electricity so there are a few different aspects we need to look at but so what is interesting is that although the Bitcoin price has been you know sinking and sinking and sinking and today it's also sinking the hash rate the hash rate has been just going up as if there were no bare market and as if the market conditions did not become worse this is something that many people are speaking about when they are speaking about mining that you know what if the price of Bitcoin decreases then we will have fewer miners because it is less profitable to mine but this doesn't hold true in this current market conditions the hash rate is increasing although we have a decrease in price and of course when we have such a situation you you realize that miners are tracing profitability for market positions and this is a quite interesting business move in my view and this is something that many people are thinking about and not really understanding but if you really dig deeper you see that big players such as bit Maine and other significant mining poles they have a great opportunity right now and the opportunity is that although have a bear market to just increase the production increase the investments in in mining infrastructure just increase your own position because only the strong players will survive this bear market in these conditions when the hash rate is just increasing I mean if you are a small mining firm and you do not have the best electricity prices you do not have the best conditions most probably you will not survive because your mining at a loss while beat mine who has huge resources huge mining firms I mean they don't really care yes it is less profitable yes it may be their even losing money but at the end of the day they are increasing their position they are increasing their power and their influence in the Bitcoin ecosystem and it is a smart business move no question about that and as a smart man as a smart man recently said never waste a good recession this is from Grant Cardone uncle Jim of course he's speaking about business that when you have a recession everyone is cutting down all the competition is cutting down they are more careful they are maybe removing employees from their company and your job is to expand when everyone is contracting and this is exactly what biz mind does so I mean we can have different opinions about Bittman but they are doing business in a good way when it comes to taking market position of course there are many controversies and conspiracies about bit mine as well especially in regards to their latest news about their IPO namely that it could be the fact that Bittman is struggling there is some conspiracies going on about that that bit mine is struggling they have issues with with mining you know prices going down and the IPO was their attempt to get external money into the company who knows how that really is none of us have insight into internal you know accounting and finances of bit mine but from the outset when you just look at the increase in in hash power and the fact that people are expanding people are not contracting people are expanding in a bear market it is quite impressive and so also when it comes to mining another thing that I want to address is that what happens when all of the bitcoins are mined this is a question I get over and over again what happens when all of the vehicles are mined and bindings doesn't produce any any income for the miners and in that situation I think several things will happen number one I'm sure that there will be a portion of people in the community that would like to increase the max supply of bitcoins I think it will happen people will say for example Satoshi was not an economist he didn't foresee this situation and so some people will try to do that however I also think that the whole mathematical situation we are facing and the the real design of Bitcoin by Satoshi is that the transaction fees should eventually replace block rewards so currently miners are earning in two ways you have the transaction fee from all the transactions and then you have block reward from each block and so from the beginning there are very few transactions so if you have time here and with time the idea is that more and more people will use Bitcoin and so transaction fees start on zero here in 2009 when Bitcoin was started because no one was transacting and become so transaction fees are very low then the idea is that they will decrease increase with time and so maybe here is you know 2100 the year 2100 while block reward on the other hand decreases I mean it is high in the beginning and then it kind of goes to half and then it's here and then it goes to half and then it goes to half and this half sahab's at all so I mean this is the mathematical idea that this will surpass but at the same time I'm sure that we will have a hundred splits we will have a hundred different works before this year even arrives because you realize it is a hundred years in the future and it is a problem there is so far away that I think we just don't need to worry about is created it is a interesting theoretical experiment and the thought food for thought but at the same time it is so far away that you know we don't even know how Biffen will look at that time and we don't really understand exactly how Finance will work I mean we'll be so and even exist in a hundred years maybe but at the same time we're so early on we will see so many other cryptocurrencies in the near future in my view that we still don't know I mean we still don't know exactly how he's going to look at so personally I'm not really worried about the situation but let me know what you think maybe maybe you have other opinions so this was news number one about mining and about miners losing money in order to get more market share in order to grow more and to replace other players that don't have the resources and the muscles to continue mining and it's an interesting business thought and also interesting mining thought as well what do you have in the chat Tom Barnard Frank crypto dentist what happened in Vegas and San Francisco's Egyptian asks I was at block show in Vegas and then I traveled to San Francisco and then to us Angeles so it was a nice trip but mostly it was for block show which is an it which was in Vegas okay guys let's move on let's move on and the second news I really want to discuss with you today is about Nasdaq and the fact that they are potentially buying a crypto exchange and potentially buying a Swedish crypto exchange this is the story you hear people talk about a lot nowadays and you see on Twitter as well that Nasdaq is acquiring become friendly Swedish exchange no one can stop this virus is spreading however I mean I need to remind you guys that this news is not really accurate because the company they are acquiring is not an exchange it's it's an exchange provider kind of you know that they are acquiring C number which is exchanged in real time you know clearing technology so this is a technology company it's not an existing exchange it's not that you can go here and you can buy and sell cryptocurrencies it is technology for exchanges you know kind of like Nasdaq Nasdaq has a similar position in many markets that they provide the technology and so this is something very interesting and there is this misunderstanding going on that they are buying an exchange and the news the news is still good they're buying exchange technology company and the syllabary works a lot with crypto and I know for example Eric Wall who is very active within the crypto space here in Sweden and the works at sea number and basically he clarified that we see number which Nasdaq so far has made an offer to pending share for approval this also something issuing that the approval is still not there the show shareholders need to approve the acquisition and they are not an exchange we are a technology provider if you have any questions feel free to ask and you might know Eric Wald from Twitter because he's always you know he's always bashing some old coin he's always critical too like I know Te'o's and I find he's very very good I mean if there is anyone you should follow to get some views on why you know some projects are good some producer bad go follow Eric wall of course I don't agree with everything he writes but I think it's an interesting discussion I mean we have a mature discussion over here that is the most important thing is it's not emotional it is mature it is facts so definitely a good person to follow on Twitter and so this is just a news and indication of the fact that the traditional players need to get into crypto and the reason is because you see security tokens and the consensus in the community currently is the security tokens will be the next big thing in crypto and security tokens basically mean that you can start organizing normal shares I mean Apple shares you have Microsoft chairs whatever shares you want really can be put on the blockchain and now you can trade them 24/7 everyone has access to them everyone is able to be part of the markets and so therefore it is just a natural step forward for for example New York Stock Exchange or Nasdaq to start tracing tokens because they will be replaced otherwise also also you see by Nance having huge profits two hundred million dollars in profit in the first quarter of course traditional players are looking at it and wondering what is going on Felix asks will come back on Steamies yeah yeah I need to do that I should do that you know before I had this routine I always posted and then I posted on Steam it but now when I'm live streaming I actually need to wait before it processed like the video is processed but yeah I will try to get it into my my routine about Twitter I didn't understand last tweak last vitalik tweet what happened to vitalik let's see Vitaly I follow with Alex sometimes but you know it's hard to keep up with everything lighthouse I'm sure we tweet which twit you mean man it's lighthouse or is it something else come on dude please give me a shoutout okay shoutout to Kryptos 2018 yeah I actually thought you were asking yesterday also but yeah you have a shout-out congratulations Ivan do you know it will take 38 or 39 years to mine the last bitcoin stars in so that is quite interesting like how many years it will take to mine the last Bitcoin and you know what we don't know because it depends on the hash rate at that time I mean the the time it takes to mine one Bitcoin should be ten minutes I mean it to mine a block should be ten minutes and the thing is we don't know exactly how the block time will look in the future and how the hash rate will be and how you know how they will interact with each other but you realize that the network has this hash rate it is growing at the same time the difficulty is increasing or decreasing depending on the hash rate and the idea is to mine one in a one Bitcoin in one block every ten minutes and of course it depends also how many Bitcoin will be rewarded in that last block a at the time when the block having just continues to consist continues and you know I haven't calculated calculated that but you know to get a quick overview we will have I mean some assumptions we can make is that there will be 10 minutes blocks let's just let's just say that and then you need to realize also I mean how many how many Bitcoin do you get for each block and currently you get 12.5 in four years we'll get six then you will get 3.20 you know 25 or something so you know if we have 12.5 and in four years it would be this and then it would be this and then it will be this yeah you do this a couple of times until you get to that year and basically each division is a you know each step is four years so you will do a 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 so now we've gone 32 years and now we've gone yeah you need to do it basically to understand how many bits can you get and one block this will be too complicated to do on the stream and and then you know once you do that BTC in block calculate that and then you will get an idea but yeah I don't know yes and I cannot calculate this pretty here you see even Google loses his mind over this calculation but yeah interesting question will probably take a long time that is the thing will probably take a long time took me three hours to get 300 okay if it takes even one hour for a block the blockchain is dead you know my guess is that we might have less than ten minute block block time and so you realize that block time does not correlate with the difficulty like the hash power because the difficulty adjust adjust so that the block time is always ten minutes so many people have this misunderstanding that you know if no one is mining the block time will increase and it is true temporarily until the network we had justice so it's all about the developers will developers decrease the block size the block time to something smaller and my guess is that they will because we're talking about we're talking about way in the future we're talking about 2100 and you know we will not even be alive at the time but the reason why you have a block time of 10 minutes right now is because you do not want to have blocks that get into the blockchain and then get removed from the blockchain you do not want to have orphans and the orphan situation is a problem because of the propagation time I mean you need to propagate the blocks through the Internet and because you have a distributed network different blocks might be propagating at the same time which means that one block needs to be removed at the end of the day and they it then becomes an orphan and we don't want that but with better technology we don't even know how Internet will look like in the hundred years and so this block time number might be way smaller but who knows my guess is that it will be smaller what are your thoughts on the golem cloud 3d rendering I'm not really a fan of golem what why not just you know there are easier ways to do it than with with talk and infrastructure I you know if I want to do it 3d rendering why do I use golem like honestly why do I use a decentralized network when I have AWS it can do it in you know in one tenth of the time so I don't really get like the cloud 3d rendering I think it cannot compete with AWS and yes it is decentralized I understand that it is censorship resistant but why would AWS censor my rendering really I don't know maybe you know kryptos I'm almost always on your morning show as I start work just before 8:00 a.m. you make it easy for me to be available nice nice awesome German ask them to awesome to hear did you have a good time with Michael on the cruise yeah it was fun it was fun and we recorded some videos but the thing is the sound was so bad because the wind so I'm not sure I'm going to publish it do you think Avalanche protocol is the future I do think Avalanche is very interesting no question about that Avalanche is interesting but at the same time I think it needs more real-world use cases and adoption and not that it needs use case it needs you has someone building on it that that is the thing even Toshi Nakamoto hey man you better change that picture because looks looks kami you look too too similar to my picture anyway guys thank you so much for watching I hope you enjoyed hope you learn something and need to explain smashes smash yeah we should launch smash smash on Evo's or something anyway guys thank you so much for watching I gotta go I gotta get going it's mash to like if you haven't if you enjoyed this video and I'll see you all tomorrow have a great day and good bye guys good bye good bye

36 thoughts on “Bitcoin Mining UNPROFITABLE, Nasdaq Crypto Exchange?”

  1. Excellent episode, Ivan! I can hardly wait to show you the miner I’m building! I’ve gotten the laptop also, so, I’ll be back into the curriculum Saturday evening (my time).

  2. To me eric wall and the discussions he starts are not mature at all, as you mentioned he is more or less „bashing“ projects, he often is provocative, cynical, ironic. He often bashes the same projects which makes him suspicios of beeing biased. To me he is a little to toxic and that is the last thing we need in the whole ecosystem or in any serious discussion.

  3. I love the FACT that Ivan is so honest and respectful. He tells his opinion, explains his thought process and then always give the respect that his viewers may know something he has not yet though of. So professional. Ivan I can not wait to see what you are up to in 10 years. Much respect!

  4. An interesting comment I read once said that the ultimate future of money will be kilowatts themselves, or at least kilowatt credits. That makes a lot of sense because in an automated world everything is made or processed with electricity AND it's a self-evident value that doesn't rely on anyone regulating it like fiat. Bitcoin seems to fit nicely into this worldview as a transitional step, because Bitcoin's cost-of-production is valued in electricity already. Perhaps the transition will occur by the time Bitcoin block rewards end in 100 years. And yes, I know this is all very theoretical.

  5. Finance guy here. Miners will invest at a loss as long as they agree able to cover the variable/electricity costs. Fixed/equipment cost is a sunk cost so it will not simply be shut down once it becomes unprofitable.

  6. First people couldn't afford to buy graphics cards, now people won't be able to afford electricity.. great…

  7. I don't think it's the transaction fees that will go up between 2009 and 2100, as individual transaction fees. These will go down. It's the transaction fees IN AGGREGATE that will go up, i.e., due to economies of scale, Metcalfe, and as the mining nodes get larger and larger (as Craig Wright has laid it out, at any rate….)

  8. Ivan, do you have an account in Upwork? I ask to se if I am being scammed by a gentleman that says he is you and wants me to work for him on some research of currency.

  9. Thanks for sharing. Ivan, will you be attending any more events in North America this year? Thanks for your time

  10. The need to offset decreasing block rewards with volume of transaction fees will manifest itself sooner than we think (may 2020 next halving) – especially if the $ price of BTC continues to decrease.

    The way we achieve higher volume of transactions is via mass adoption so time is running out.

  11. DPOS (Delegated Proof of Stake) is just simulated POW (Proof of Work). POW miners don't actually create blocks once they join a mining pool. Unless you have significant resources to open your own server farm, you're going to join a pool or else you're playing with lotto tickets. Miners end up having to trust and vote on which block producer pools they will delegate their hashing power to. DPOS eliminates the hefty middleman costs incurred due to wasteful electricity & ASIC taxes. Said another way, POW is just a slow, bloated, high cost, obfuscated form of DPOS. Everyone inherently understands voting, but most need someone else to explain how mining works. They are not as far apart as you might think.

  12. 01:18 Market overview
    02:00 Mining
    06:45 What happens when all of the BTC is mined?
    10:00 Nasdaq buying a Swedish crypto exchange
    13:13 Open convo with chat
    18:54 Golem
    20:02 Avalanche

    Coffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    BTC: 1CujYPEzSvLwzb24iiMChHTQacELbdBrAs

  13. I enjoyed this stream.
    miners who thinks that it's not profitable need to think that in 10 year your bitcoin could be, worth a lot more.
    sorry I missed it today (work)

  14. Yeah! I agree with you Ivan Mining is unprofitable. But I want to say are u reviewing any ongoing ico's like Airgeadcoin

  15. I genuinely appreciate the level of care and work that goes into all of your videos, man. your presentation is unique, your approach lacks a clear bias which is GREAT (not to mention RARE), and you explain everything in great detail. I've both begun AND ceased investing in certain projects based on your videos and their respective explanations–not because you recommended either but rather because your explanations made my decisions much clearer and easier to make. keep doing your thing!!!! great Ivan

  16. Buy signal: $kwatt, hold till late september
    1st target: 30k gwei
    2nd target: 45k gwei
    3rd target: 65k gwei
    Big partnership coming!! Check twitter and telegram

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