Andreas Antonopoulos 2019: Bitcoin vs. Facebook Libra coin = End of retail banking

I went to banking conference once and
had a panel there were a lot of distinguished professors and you know
doctors of philosophy who who were talking about how these forms of
cryptocurrency have none of the characteristics of
money and and don’t work as money and therefore are not money and you know my
simple suggestion at that panel was well I’m staying in a hotel that I paid for
with cryptocurrency I flew to this conference on a plane that somehow I
managed to get a ticket for cryptocurrency so as far as I’m
concerned the thing that allows me to fly in a giant metal bird in the sky of
five hundred miles an hour pretty much feels like money to me so you can tell
me through all of your years of professional experience and you know
deep academic accreditation and credentialing that what I’m doing isn’t
real but I’m still doing it you know the very experience that I have
contradicts that and anecdotes don’t make for for science but but but money
isn’t a tangible thing money as you said before is a fiction that we all
participate in and apparently some other people were participating in my fiction
because they sold me a ticket to a plane that’s amazing did you have to negotiate
that or how do you I don’t know there’s plenty of companies out there who will
happily take crypto to sell you a plane ticket or a hotel room or something like
that there’s plenty of company Oh at the moment they’re intermediaries because
usually the airlines or the hotels don’t take crypto directly but that doesn’t
really matter it’s no different than he you know paying something through visa
with visa as the intermediary amazing amazing and speaking of fierce we were
talking about some people fear this and when I talked to I always like to use my
grandma Susie just the brake thing downs and in the most simple ways Susie and so
what if my grandma Susie was in the room and she would say “Andreas, I hear a lot
about Bitcoin” and speaking of which the Google Trends compared to the adoption
in terms of it’s there’s a huge gap of people who no
aware but do not use cryptocurrency what is that fear coming from and and if
you had to explain to my grandma Susie that she shouldn’t fear a Bitcoin for
instance or cryptocurrency like how would you approach someone in this
embody the first question I would ask is realistically does your grandmother need
this technology and most likely the answer is no no and that’s okay right
this is it for everyone not everybody needs this technology if you’re if your
grandmother lives in a country where there’s financial stability where
institutions are relatively reliable where governments are not totalitarian
where the currency is not hyper inflating you know does she leave Susie
alone yet another new thing don’t worry it’s okay we shouldn’t try to like push
this on people who don’t need it now if someone needs it and they’re interested
in learning more I think it’s important to start with some of the fundamentals
of what money is right and that’s actually even more important to do with
children than the elderly because they’re going to be in a world where
they need to understand the fundamentals of how money works and and finance this
is a really important lessons too to teach your children right or as I like
to say have the conversation about the birds and the bees and then have the
conversation about the private keys you have to you have to have a conversation
about about control about finance about responsibility but you also have to have
a conversation about what it means to be a citizen or participants in a 21st
century economy and that’s going to look very different right so it depending on
who you’re talking to what their perspective is what their need is you
have a different conversation it’s important to be able to speak in terms
that are relevant to the people who are going to be using this
and you know I don’t know what that means but don’t worry if people need it
they’re gonna come and ask you you don’t need to tell them what to do I think
it’s also a mistake to do that because it’s a bit off-putting right you know
we’ve annoyed the hell out of everybody we’ve ever gone to a party with like
you’ve been talking about Bitcoin or cryptocurrency for the past two hours
leave me alone I went to have a drink and enjoy some dancing I remember a part
of your interview in the London real which I watched live the other day and
you were saying that I wouldn’t recommend it to my dad actually so much
what you’re saying now I got a news piece he’d get scary so I mean I monitor
my dad’s accounts because what happens is like many of our parents he’ll have a
problem with his laptop his tablet his phone he’ll take it to a service place
and they’ll go in and in order to access his account they’ll change the password
and they’ll change the password to his date of birth or some stupid password
like that and I get the notification that the password has changed I call my
down like did you get the password like no no the lovely helpful people at the
local mega store changed my password oh okay here’s how you change it back
you know usually within a few hours I’ve got it fixed again but you know six
months later that has happens again you know my dad will take his Bitcoin wallet
to the local friendly people at the mega store and say help me I can’t this is my
pneumonic phrase I’m having some difficulty typing Atene like don’t worry
we’ll help you boom and it’s gone and it’s you know what we’re not ready for
for that yet and that’s okay you know it took me a good decade to get my dad to
use email and help him understand it and now he loves it but his security
practices are terrible terrible and I can’t help with that that makes a lot of
sense I think I now that you mentioned that I don’t think I would actually
recommend it to my grandma Susie I just say you’re in a safe area for now if you
want a big coin all stores on for you and maybe one day yeah sometimes it’s
supported like a he talked to your grandma Susie about what money was like
and what bank was like you know decades ago okay so
you can learn more from her than teach her about cryptocurrency have her teach
you about banking how to teach you about the Great Depression right have her
teach you about you know the fear that act can cause that’s what I learned my
father taught me about the Nazi occupation of Greece he taught me about
the the dictatorship and the civil war that happened afterwards
you know that’s what I learned and it influenced my talking and my perspective
and my political life since I was a child because those experiences are very
powerful the problem is when we forget the lessons that a previous generation
has Lawrence don’t teach your grandma anything sit down ask her to tell your
story record it and learn something from her something from her and that’s a
really good advice and speaking of depression a lot of people kind of
speculate on how we might enter another financial crisis as you know of course
bitcoin was kind of born thanks to the previous one right and that previous one
was triggered obviously by the private sector but this one could be triggered
by the public sector or both or both yes with the federal banks in QE and all
these ideas that may hurt us in the long term I know that you don’t have a magic
ball and you cannot see the future but will this help Bitcoin or will it hurt
Bitcoin as a safe haven as something that we did you know it’s impossible to
tell us and in fact I think I I object to some of the attitude that pervades
the the open blockchain community that you know bring on the recession you know
I’ve got a life raft and and I’m gonna be standing in my life raft laughing at
all of the people drowning around me who didn’t get the message of crypto you
have to be a sociopath to have an attitude like that if we do have a
worldwide recession or even a localized recession a lot of good innocent people
are going to get hurt and they’re gonna get hurt not because they did something
bad but because they didn’t learn an important lesson right and and that’s
not their fault and we should be more empathetic to the
pack that has on other people’s lives so the idea that I’ll be rich while the
others are starving that’s not a healthy attitude to have as human being let’s
hope we don’t have a global recession let’s instead hope that we can gradually
normalize the economic systems with help from cryptocurrency but also with better
politics and better civic participation and and all of the other things we can
do in the world because if we just wait for the rest to collapse so they can
help crypto first of all it might not like at the moment if we have our so not
only can we not help all of the people who will need help because
cryptocurrency can’t scale like that and it’s not ready technologically or from a
user experience or security perspective but also right now the the sector
benefits inadvertently and very ironically from the quantitative easy it
benefits from the fact that investors are putting money into a number of
different technologies because the the yields on traditional investments are
already topped out so they’re trying to find other places to invest their money
and we benefit because that fuels research and development and training
and software engineering and and all of the growth in our space oh like that
would dry up immediately and and we shouldn’t be gleeful about that so I I
can’t make predictions about what will happen I certainly don’t wish a global
recession I think that’s very dangerous thinking it’s a very dangerous thing
that so that’s the first time I heard this angle and I think it’s a really
interesting one obviously it’s something that many people debate but as you said
it as long as it has a negative and we not to talk about it yeah we need to
debate it we need to warn people or people we’re on a path that is very
dangerous our financial system is more fragile than it was in 2008 and part of
the reason it’s more fragile is because none of the fundamental structural
problems were fixed and instead we just kind of papered over them with with just
printing a lot of currency and bailing outs a lot of institutions that should
have failed and letting people get away with things for which they
should have gone to jail yeah and that’s gonna come back and bite us right now
later in a big way or a small way it will ooh we are going to pay the price
for this the question is as a society do we learn that lesson can we apply that
lesson can we improve our systems and make them more robust and less fragile
more resilient and as individuals can we make individual choices that diversify
us and reduce our exposure to systemic risk and single point risk so that we
have a more healthy financial future you know there’s individual responsibilities
and there’s also you know the societal response pay they’re not participation
in society we have to talk about these things but talking about them and
wishing for them is two very different things
yeah absolutely it’s just I kind of see you if there is an actual crisis
triggered by the public sector like you already have you fill rooms like today
the room was absolutely full I feel like you would have 10 times more people
listening because they’ve been deceived twice or at least get more interest by I
mean honestly that’s a terrible way for me to get my work yeah honestly my life
would become extremely insecure it’s already difficult to do this job with
the security threats that exist but if we had that kind of thing going on and
desperate people are dangerous people and I would be in a position where by
safety would be much much more fragile well question not wishing I was shaking
yeah okay and one last question that I wanted to ask you was related to
obviously a big topic these days of the Facebook yes to–it and the other coin
the global coin yeah suck box yes yes and a lot of people are debating from
what I’ve seen up to now is will this benefit Bitcoin as in create more
awareness for cryptocurrency will her bitcoins some people there’s one author
on Forbes that mentioned that Facebook or the global coin will completely take
over Bitcoin some crazy things that have been said but the pros and cons if you
don’t mind breaking down on how this affects Bitcoin and cryptocurrency that
would be amazing yeah so I I think again and and we hear
this a lot is how do you evaluate the fundamental
differences between something like a global coin I believe that gonna call it
we jokingly call it suck bucks but global coin I think is the name they’re
talking about which is ironic because it’s not global and it’s not a coin the
problem is that if we evaluate it using the principles we talked about before
the five pillars the five pillars and you know is it open no it’s not open it
can’t be open participants will have to be identified and vetted why because
Facebook is a centralized organization that exists under different
jurisdictions primarily the u.s. jurisdiction but also many others and in
those jurisdictions they’re obligated by law if they extend financial services to
individuals to do what’s known as no your customer and no your customer
regulations requiring to directly identify and vet every participant in
every transaction both sides of the transaction that means that it’s not
open is it borderless no they have to comply with sanctions and embargoes and
border controls and export controls and currency regulations it cannot be borne
as it will serve a few countries just like PayPal can only serve a few
countries it cannot be neutral because source and destination they are
obligated by law of not only verifying but preventing certain transactions they
must not only prevent transactions to certain people and from certain people
or organizations under the international anti counter trafficking and terrorism
or counter terrorism financing and anti money laundering regulations they must
also prevent uses for certain types of purchases so they have been
automatically deputized not only in the global war on drugs sorry the global war
on some drugs that are not made by multi-billion pharmaceuticals they also
have to be included in the Global War on whatever the hell were fighting now
which includes currency wars and trade wars and you know is trying to an ally
or an enemy this year and whatever other wars are being fought so they
not be neutral they cannot be sensed your persistence in fact censorship is a
legal mandate that they must fulfill or they get shut down and they cannot be
open in public because you can’t build any applications that connect to them
without permission to build those applications if they ever give
permission to anyone because they have to follow all of these rules therefore
they’re not any of the things that we care about so how do they compete
exactly with the open public borderless neutral sensitive resistant transparent
immutable critical currencies that we’re talking about they don’t and they don’t
because they serve a different purpose they serve the purpose of giving easier
financing to those who are already banked to those who are already
identified to those who already have the means to participate in global finance
and identify themselves to the regulated authorities to those who have the
privilege of financial inclusion they’re banking for the already included they
cannot offer banking to the already excluded by definition so who is crypto
for crypto is for the other six billion the ones they can’t serve they can serve
the two billion they’re customers who really already have a bank account now
if you’re a bank you should be terrified by this because now you’re getting
attacked from two fronts crypto is coming to serve all of the people you’ve
left behind and fulfill the idea of universal basic financial services for
all and on the other hand the fundamental advantage the banks have and
the what differentiates them and the way that competes is by being excellent at
technology well guess what there’s some new players in town and they’re better
at it than you and they’re better at technology in the better user experience
and they’ve also mastered using artificial intelligence to tickle the
dopamine receptors of two billion people and fool them into taking terrible
decisions and participating in surveillance capitalism they do
surveillance capitalism better than you they’re more rich more powerful and more
sophisticated when it comes to building user experience than you so if you’re a
bank you should be terrified of global coin absolutely terrified because that’s all
the first one here comes Apple Google and every other tech company software is
coming to eat the banking industry and it’s coming from both directions
simultaneously with a highly permissioned but more polished and more
sophisticated technology on one end and the completely permissionless the one
that doesn’t have to play by your rules that can compete outside the sandbox
that you’ve carved out and serve all of the people you’ve left outside and
banking in the middle just gets squeezed to nothing wow I’m speechless I don’t
even know what to say after that that was absolutely amazing thank you feels
like that extract should go in every highlight reel I’m blown away there’s if
you don’t mind just one last question was a gave me another idea because
you’re you’re always talking about Financial Inclusion universal access
equal access to all and it’s a beautiful message and a lot of people tend to talk
about how utility tokens has no value it’s just thin air multi utility tokens
as well and everyone’s talking about the the rise of security tokens Harare and
his book was talking about sapiens that your securities or companies do not
exist if a company goes bust the car still exists they’re not connected like
you were talking about the Greek philosophers earlier do you do you feel
like security tokens is kind of a step back in that direction and utility
tokens is just misunderstood or or is there value to both what is your overall
like view on I think security tokens are kind of a weak compromise because what
they’re trying to do is do something that is a bit more sophisticated than
traditional securities a bit more fluid a bit more liquid a bit more flexible
with a few more capabilities but neglecting the power of completely open
global utility and security tokens that are not the regulated type that is only
available to accredited investors to me the real the real promise of things like
crowdfunding and and open public offerings like I SEOs which are not
regulated you know today 99.9 percent of them are scams we understand that an
investor should be very careful about these things but we also have two real
is that the possibility of taking any startup anywhere in the world that has a
powerful idea execution team etc and connecting it to a pool of investors
from anywhere in the world that is enormous ly powerful that’s going to
revolutionize the funding of new technologies and new ventures
democratizing access to investment is again another very powerful tool in
reducing poverty again it’s about economic inclusion we talk about the
unbanked but banking is only one aspect of economic inclusion access to
investment opportunities is one of the big things that separate and create more
inequality and separate the halves from the have-nots right so if you live in
certain countries where you have very limited access financial services you
also have very limited access to investment opportunities even in the
United States in order to invest in in private equity rounds for example you
have to be an accredited investor you have to show that you have more than
$200,000 of repeated annual income for 3 years in a row I think or more than a
million dollars in liquid assets not counting your primary residence right
well how many people have that I can tell you it’s a very very small number
so having you know that level of privilege gives you the ability to buy
in to things before they become listed on the stock exchange get in in the
early rounds participates in investments most mortals don’t get to and that
actually is an opportunity that creates multiples of growth and gain to those
who participate and losses of course you know you have to be very careful about
these things the idea is that accredits is investors
have less to lose perhaps because they have more money or they’re more
sophisticated because there have more money what an incredibly bourgeois
concept yeah right that’s almost like saying the masses are not educated
enough to vote oh wait that wall said for centuries right so the idea that the
masses are not educated enough to invest well guess why because you all let them
invest let them invest then they gain the education
through needs to learn how to make better investments every time they try
and it’s all a matter of relative wealth wealth is not an absolute thing if you
have a tiny bit of disposable income a fraction of disposable income of someone
who’s an accredited investor you need access to better investment
opportunities more than the rich person putting people in a poverty trap because
we believe that we know better it’s patronizing right and and not just
patronizing ultimately it’s immoral condemning people to poverty by not
giving them opportunities participate in the world economy so one of the really
interesting thing about the completely open world of tokens is that it can
connect any investor to any opportunity anywhere in the world
and regulators cannot stop that from happening and the reason they can’t stop
that from happening is because every year egg you later operates within one
jurisdiction American regulators think that the entire globe was their
jurisdiction and they’re going to extend their arm all they’re doing is they’re
teaching the people who are involved in this especially the scammers to create
layers of obfuscation so they can escape prosecution but the bottom line is
they’re also stopping very very interesting ideas and interesting and
good investments from having a level playing field from being able to act the
way American companies do that have much more opportunity there’s this enormous
gap between the organic funding of early-stage
angel investors venture capital and stock market funding and most companies
find it very difficult because the pipeline narrows tremendously and so
it’s not just about investors accessing investment opportunities also about
companies accessing capital now imagine if you’re a brilliant young engineer and
you live in the Philippines not your fault you were born there great you have
a fantastic idea an idea that is worthy of the best backing pie the most
sophisticated investors in the world you cannot get to them you cannot get to
them even if you manage to fly across and land in Silicon Valley and pitch
your hat with all of the other people almost
right and the regulatory barriers to even incorporating a company in many of
the developing countries are so high imagine how that changes if all that
matters is the idea and your ability to execute not where you are so we are
going to create a new environment that’s going to massively disrupt and also
liberate possibilities for investment and I think that’s a good thing we
shouldn’t be scared of that you know we don’t need to regulate this with
committees we can regulate this with programmable structures we can build
reputation systems if that regulate decentralized systems that exist on a
global basis need to be regulated by decentralized systems that exist on a
global basis you have a problem with reputation build a decentralized
reputation system to help us with that you need vetting great decentralized
vetting you need whatever kind of consumer protection programmable
consumer protection with smart contracts we solve the problems of decentralized
global computing with solutions that are based on the centralized global
computing we don’t solve them by saying hang on a second we’ll just call these
12 dudes in New York who work on a committee of extreme importance and
authority and ask them if what you’re doing is okay they already have enough
power right we don’t need that anymore they democratize the function of banking
and turn it into an app that everyone can access without vetting because
they’ve already pre vetted they have agreed to download the software that
follows the rules of consensus and that is the only vetting required in these
systems but we shouldn’t allow that we did but we can’t have people make
anonymous transactions they will but we must regulate this you can’t and you
won’t because six billion people need this and you have
neither the moral authority nor more importantly the practical capability to
stand in their way or even to stand in the way of what is
going to be the greatest revolution in financial services in three centuries
universal access to basic finance. Thank you that makes a lot of sense and I
think like for example the theorem ICO where at that time I believe it 134
countries could have participated in a project yeah a really cool project with
lots of Engineers backing out working on this digital infrastructure like you
said it’s inclusion it’s really giving equal advocate everyone a lot of those
projects because they have a physical presence in Western nations have to
exclude all of the citizens of Iran and Venezuela and North Korea and this
that’s in the other whoever is on the naughty naughty list today right that’s
true yeah you know countries like Saudi Arabia oh wait they’re not on the
naughty list they’re one of our distinguished and esteemed allies that’s
fucked up his the bottom line with that right that is fucked up my dad is in
Iran by the way yes and was that his choice no no exactly exactly
undressed this has been amazing I feel like I’m gonna watch this interview over
and over and over and I hope you know many of the people out there also
understand the five pillars and all the great work you’ve done up to now a lot
of people say that mastering Bitcoin is actually they I’ve heard so many
different terms but saying that it’s basically a gem I’ve heard gem I’ve
heard the Bible for Bitcoin I’ve heard so many like terms I’ll talk about what
great work you’ve done and all the talks you’ve been giving over the thing that
you passed yeah thank you so much for It’s full of mistakes and it’s a collaborative
ongoing project you’ve got to realize that first of all it’s available open
source on github but it was developed collaboratively and under open source
licenses it’s being translated by more than 800 volunteers into 17 languages
right now and that effort continues with the second edition that was opened
or creative commons attribution/share-alike license –is in
november the effort is ongoing spanish is about 75% done many of the other
languages are just starting you can actually go and help with that effort and
bring it to the language of your country and even self publish it because it’s a
completely open license but keep in mind this is books can never be perfect and
they can never be finished this is not the work of one person this is the work
and the reflection of a whole community I was like the maestro conducting the
orchestra helping coordinates everybody and I wrote big chunks of it but I
didn’t write all of it and I didn’t do it alone you know these are community
efforts my other books are also available this is really for developers
and technically minded people it’s about what bitcoin is and how it works and
similarly everything about etherium and mastering etherium for people who are
non-technical the internet of money this is volume 2 which is my favourite
volume. It’s a bit more in-your-face a bit more a reference it’s a collection
of 11 of my talks as well as a QA Volume one is another 11 talks they’re
discontinuous you can buy or read them in any sequence you want you can just
start right in the middle and they’re about why this technology matters about
the social political philosophical implications the impact on the future
the non technical there there my talks corrected and polished up but in a way
that’s accessible to everyone so if you want to help someone understand or if
you yourself want to understand why these technology matters that’s more
your book if you’re a software engineer and you want to understand how they work
and how to build things on them then more than mastering Bitcoin are not
serious that’s correct that’s really really cool so my grandma Suzy would
understand this I don’t know if she don’t know all of it but she’d
understand enough to understand that what kind of impact subscribe most
importantly she’d enjoy reading it’s I think I this is this has a very broad
audience you know I’ll tell you a little a little dirty secret someone asked me
what is your goal with this book when I first
and I said I want this to be the perfect toilet book and one of the reasons it is
a great toilet book is because each chapter is three or four pages and you
can read it 7 to 10 minutes which guess what is exactly the next amount of time
you need and you can start anywhere and end anywhere you want without having to
follow a plot or a narrative they’re all standalone little chapters so what I
encourage people to do is give it as a gift and have people put it in their
bathroom and yeah it was absolutely deliberate I just said you know make it
a perfect toilet book I want it to be you know the kind of thing you you read
when you’re at your most vulnerable and ready for new ideas that is brilliant
it’s absolute great thank you so much Andreas, it was absolutely awesome having you.
Definitely guys catch Andreas talk and the crypto compare digital asset
summit it was a talk that was extremely emotional I was blown away I was
emotional myself so yeah please watch and thank you to you and your crew for
all of the wonderful work we definitely want you back next time you’re in London
undress it’d be awesome to have a second one and we will get more women on the
show.. Thank you so much has your feedback thank you so much buddy
appreciate it good thank you hey stop stealing my trading strategies 🙂
if you want to build your own trading strategies predict, learn, and earn
Bitcoin with zero risk.. Definitely have a look at our community app. It’s tons of

24 thoughts on “Andreas Antonopoulos 2019: Bitcoin vs. Facebook Libra coin = End of retail banking”

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    00:08 Money is FICTON
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    07:28 Will the next crisis HURT or HELP Bitcoin
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  5. Can you do highlights video of this interview and copy/paste this video without cutting any part off? Enjoyed it very much.

  6. Dude you rocked an interview w Andreas!!! Very interesting. He’s on Uber Jeff’s bucket list of influencers to interview for sure.

  7. One of the better interviews I've seen with Andreas! Still I've one doubt when he talks about crypto being for the people without bank account. If I didn't have a bank account I wouldn't have had bitcoin. I know that you can mine but then you also need a powerful setup, does not sound right to me? Also he is paying in bitcoin, nice but ALTs are sinking all the time and BTC is to HODL, so why bother paying with it unless you get payed yourself in BTC?

  8. Fiat currency isn't "money!" It is DEFINITELY not a good store of value. Fiat currency does have magical characteristics however, i.e., stick a $20 under you mattress for about 50 years, and watch the perceived value disappear!

  9. Andreas definitely found his much-needed calling! This isn't (just) about cryptocurrency, it's about FREEDOM!!

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